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Thread: Cold / rust blue formulas

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
    barrabruce's Avatar
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    Cold / rust blue formulas

    Yeah,gidday everyone.
    I have a few bluing formulas I have gathered but they all seem to use ammonium nitrate.
    I can get my hands on only urea.
    Can it be substituted ?
    I have cal nitrate and pot nitrate as well.

    Do I just pee on a barrel and let it rust then steam?

    I tried hot blue caustic soda or something tanks many years ago and it did work but no thanks,not again.

    Some of the bought solutions are unavailable over here and I’d rather do it myself anyway.

    Any ideas for a cold/ rust blue quick or slow using easy find components.


    I tried some sea salt and peroxide solution and let it rust then boiled it and it turned out a bit pity antqueekish pitted neglected looking on some steel which would favourably blend in with some of my guns.....but after something a bit more better.

    Thnx
    Bruce

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    There are many ways to rust blue. I once did a cold rust blue I got from my gun smith . Worked great on a double barrel pistol I did. It came out a Beautiful chocolate brown . I do know on rust bluing that u want a light coat of rust then card it off . More like polishing the rust and re rusting it to build up the layers or thickness of it. Then boiling it to turn the rust to black or bluing

  3. #3
    Boolit Master

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    I use the rust blue and boiling distilled water , works for me , I wipe the rusting solution on and steam it with a tea pot sit to rust and wipe off with denim and retreat and steam , repeat as needed then boiling distilled water in a pipe , Laurel Mountain Forge has their directions on their site , and after a few days it is a deep lasting blue .

  4. #4
    Boolit Master hoodat's Avatar
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    Do y'all plug the bore? jd
    It seems that people who do almost nothing, often complain loudly when it's time to do it.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master

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    I run a oily patch through with some light grease afterwards and yes I plug my bores , wooden dowels tapered and tapped in and have used a reject cast bullet in muzzle , I had a couple hi point carbines in 45acp that had rough nasty looking bores new straight out of box , a gunsmith told me it was done when barrels were blued and they sent them out that way .

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    Thanks.
    I’ll go and scrounge around and see if I can get find some ammonium nitrate some where.

    Flintfire do you just pour you boiling water in the tube or keep it boiling with heat underneath..

    I’ll go to the website and suss it out.
    Thanks for the replies.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master


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    There used to be a member her that mixed it and sold it in the BST Section. I was a pretty good mix as members had a good result with it.

    He had to stop for awhile and hasn't started back selling his brew. I think he was headed back to colledge.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master

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    I would have liked to keep water boiling but do not have the metal trough , so I took the suggestion of a pvc pipe , I capped one end made it long enough for a muzzle loader 42 inch barrel and pour boiling water in and sit a cup over top , the water stays hot a long time , Laurel Mountain Forge I think would have you cut the pipe open , I had 2 inch pipe so it is how I did it .

    Used about half a gallon of water and used a stock pot to make sure I had enough water .

  9. #9
    Boolit Grand Master


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    You should be able to find ammonium nitrate at a large agricultural supplier.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    I use Mark Lee and a heat gun. works for me.

  11. #11
    Boolit Buddy
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    Cold packs can be a source of ammonium nitrate. Check the label or the Safety Data Sheet to make sure of what is in it.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master hoodat's Avatar
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    Isn't Tanerite pellets ammonium nitrate? jd
    It seems that people who do almost nothing, often complain loudly when it's time to do it.

  13. #13
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    Lots of options here. First off I use the Mark Lee Plum brown (not the Mark Lee rust Blue). Ironically the plum brown works much better at rust bluing than their rust blue. in a rust bluing process what you're trying to do is convert brown (red) rust into black rust, then polish this black rust. I haven't tried it, but I bet that you could even use Birchwood Casey brown and then boil the part to convert the brown to black.
    Things that are important; 1. There can't be any oil or grease on the part that you want to rust blue. This includes fingerprints so wear some disposable rubber gloves while cleaning and handling the parts. Wash the parts thoroughly in hot soapy water then dry to remove any grease or oil. The rust blue will not "take" on an area that has oil on it. 2. This is a fast rust blue process and there is no reason to plug the bore. In a slow rust blue process you must protect the bore, but I've done rust bluing on barrels in less than an hour, and there is no possibility of damage to the bore if done right. 3. Plum brown processes require the part to be heated. Do not over-heat the part. The part needs only to be hot enough for the browning solution to sizzle; just over boiling temperature. Do not heat the part so hot that it draws the temper. You only need to heat the part to 200 to 250 degrees F. Even 300 degrees F will cause no damage. But there's no reason to heat the part to 400 degrees or above - that's just crazy! 4. You need a carding wheel. This looks like a wire wheel that you'd use on a grinder, but it's different. The stainless wires on a carding wheel are only about the size of a human hair so they buff the surface instead of scouring it. If you don't have a carding wheel you can buff the part with scraps of blue jeans, but it will take a lot longer. 5. This bluing is a chemical process where the red surface rust on a piece of steel is converted to a black rust by contact with boiling water. The water needs to be boiling when the part is immersed into it. Do not place the part in cold water and then begin to heat it. The water needs to already be boiling when the part is placed into it. Normal water has oxygen (air) in solution with it. There's so much air in solution that fish are able to breathe under water. When you boil the water it drives all of this dissolved air out of solution. The boiling water will then draw oxygen off of the red rust converting it to black. Because energy (heat) is being added to the water it will continue to loose this oxygen out of solution, so it will continue to draw more of it from the red rust until it all converts to the more stable black rust state. This usually takes about 20 minutes of boiling. 6. There is almost no oxygen in solution with the water as it's boiling. For steel to rust it must oxidize. It can't do this in boiling water, so there's no reason to plug the bore. When a barrel is removed from the boiling water it will be at 212 degrees F, and any water left in the bore can be poured out and will very quickly evaporate. An oily patch can then be pushed through the bore, and there will be no rust whatsoever.
    Here's the process: Lets take a part to be blued - in this case a barrel. First clean and de-grease the barrel. Dawn or simple green and hot water are fine for this. Wear some disposable rubber gloves to keep from getting fingerprints on the barrel. Once the barrel is clean heat it to just above boiling temperature and swab on some Mark Lee Plum Brown. You want a nice even coat. The whole barrel should look good and evenly covered with brown rust. You can repeat the application if you think it needs it. Then fill a tank that is large enough for the barrel to fit inside with water (it doesn't need to be distilled - tap water will work fine), and heat it to boiling. Once the water is boiling suspend the barrel (or part) in the boiling water. Don't just let the part sit on the bottom of the tank, the boiling water needs to be in contact with all surfaces of the part. Within seconds of immersing the part into the tank you will see the chemical reaction start to take place. Boil the part for at least 20 minutes so that the reaction can fully complete. Whatever is in the Mark Lee Plum Brown must have some acid in it, so once it's done it's work don't forget to neutralize it. After the 20 minutes of boiling is done toss a handful of baking soda into the tank and it will fizz as it neutralizes any acids. Then remove the barrel from the tank and quickly rinse it off. It will be hot so be careful. The moisture left on the barrekl will dry right away.
    If you've done the job right the barrel will look awful. It should looks so bad that the first time you do this you'll think you've ruined it. This is perfect, and is exactly the way you want it to look. First run an oily patch down the bore to protect it. Any particles of rust that show on the patch didn't come from the bore, they were from the surface conversion of red to black rust that happened on the outside, and just got washed in there during the boiling. The bore should look unchanged from before the bluing process. Now begin buffing the outside of the barrel with the carding wheel, (or scrap of blue jean). This will reveal the deep blued surface that is hiding under a light coat of powdery red rust debris. Buff the barrel (or part) until the whole surface is a dark blue, then lightly wipe with an oiled rag. I've done this process on lots of receivers, barrels and gun parts, etc. and from start to finish I can rust blue a barrel in about an hour.

    FYI; Ammonium nitrate used to be commonly available as a fertilizer, but after the Oklahoma City bombing is much harder to get. Tanerite is ammonium nitrate and powdered aluminum, but because it is an explosive it might also be hard to get. If you need to get some ammonium nitrate for making a bluing solution, but it is difficult to acquire, here's one of many possible sources: instant cool pack from a first-aid kit. These are plastic bags that when struck and shook become cold. They are a sack of ammonium nitrate pellets that has a smaller sack of water inside. When you smack the cold pack it breaks the water bag inside, and when the water reacts with the ammonium nitrate it becomes cold. If you need some ammonium nitrate just cut the corner off a cold pack (don't damage the inner water bag) and pour out the pellets. You can use these to feed your house plants or make steel parts more attractive, but don't do something stupid like trying to whip up your own tannerite. It's not worth loosing an eye or some fingers or worse by playing mad scientist. If you want some tannerite just buy some.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
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    Thanks 405 grain for tutorial

    They won’t let us play with tenterite over here in Oz or even firecrackers

    After the weekend I’ll have a search around town.
    I don’t think I could go through a 20kg bag of ammonium nitrate in a hurry.

    You could buy small bags in the gardening sections up until a few years ago but they too seemed to have disappeared.

    Who woulda thunk it that I coulda/woulda/ shoulda stashed some fertiliser and brass scrubbing pads and other things!

    Anyway back to the subject on hand I’ll see what I have on offer around these parts to play with.

  15. #15
    Boolit Master

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    Back when, browned finishes were achieved by cooling a heated part in cow urine. Their diet means more ammonia and nitrates that ours. Browning is then converted to black rust via a soak in boiling water. I have used Andy's rust bluing (the forum member that used to mix and sell it) and the process is very simple and forgiving, just very time consuming. Wipe down the part, hang in a damp/humid area for a day or two, card off the loose stuff and soak in boiling water (I used the fill a pvc pipe method as well) clean, dry and repeat until the desired look and even coverage is achieved. I wiped mine down with boiled linseed oil to seal and neutrize and it gave a beautiful satin sheen that still looks great years later.
    "In God we trust, in all others, check the manual!"

  16. #16
    Boolit Master
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    Nice.

    I want to try a steel soup recipe.
    Add 10 grams ammonium nitrate to 1 ltre boiling water.
    Wash parts in hot soapy dishwashing water then wipe with acetone wearing gloves.
    Place parts in boiling water and stir steel soup occasionally for half and hr.

    It looked good for lathe parts and things for the workshop I had seen.

    Many ways.

    My dog Sally’s urine is pretty strong smelling, maybe I can use that.

    Hmm emerging from the garage smelling of steaming hot stale dog pee ought to keep the evil spirits and god bother's at bay for a while.
    Last edited by barrabruce; 05-29-2021 at 02:37 AM.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master
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    R. H. Angier’s Firearm Bluing And Browning has all the formulas and procedures for the slow-rust and “express” processes that anyone would ever want to try. I was a chemist in a previous life, so I combined some of the elements of a couple of them, added some new stuff and went from there, but the original mixtures worked fine.

    The book has been through more editions than most best-selling novels, and might even be downloadable from somewhere.

    It doesn’t cover the modern alkaline hot-dunk process that you mostly get commercially, but the investment in tanks, thermometers, heaters, etc, is more than the home hobbyist would want to spend anyway.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master

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    https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/fir...ier/1008845590 for $16.49 or free on Kindle Unlimited.
    Spell check doesn't work in Chrome, so if something is spelled wrong, it's just a typo that I missed.

  19. #19
    Boolit Buddy JLF's Avatar
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    This formula has given me good results, and it does not contain mercury compounds.
    1.- The piece to be treated is scrupulously cleaned. 2.-In a glass container, the following mixture is made with the help of a glass rod: Distilled water (360 grams) Ground copper sulfate (30 grams) Pure nitric acid (15 grams) Sweet nitro spirit (30 grams) ) Steel tincture (60 grams) Rectified wine spirit (30 grams) 3.-The mixture is kept covered (with glass) in a glass container. 4.-With a crankpin (cotton rag ball) impregnated with the previous mixture, the piece to be treated is smeared without spilling liquid. It is left to act for 24 hours. 5.-Without touching the piece with your hands, it is immersed in water at a high boiling point for 30 minutes. 6.-The piece is removed and all the water is allowed to evaporate by itself. 7.-Once dry, brush and polish with steel wool. 8.-The application of spreading and boiling is repeated up to three times. 9.-The better it is brushed and polished between operations, the higher quality will be the resulting bluing.
    "When the homeland is in danger, everything is allowed, except not to defend it."

    Gral. Don José de San Martin.

  20. #20
    Boolit Buddy JLF's Avatar
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    I use this formula a lot, but with safety equipment, as it contains corrosive sublimate (mercury dichloride)
    1.-The piece to be treated is scrupulously cleaned. 2.-In a glass container the following mixture is made with the help of a glass rod: Distilled water (250 grams) Copper sulfate (91 grams) 90º alcohol (184.5 grams) Corrosive sublimate (33 grams) Sweet nitro (204 grams) Nitric acid (102 grams) We make "Steel Tincture" as follows: Hydrochloric acid (88 grams) Steel filings (33 grams) 90º alcohol (119 grams) It is not added until the acid and the filings have been thoroughly mixed. 3.-The peacock bass is applied with a brush as evenly as possible and left to act for 24 hours. 4.-The piece is immersed in boiling water for 20 minutes. 5.-The piece is removed and allowed to dry by itself. 6.-The oxide layer is scrupulously brushed. 7.-The application process is repeated four times. 9.-Prepare a solution with 600 grams of water and 10 grams of Potassium Sulfate.10.-After completing the process for the fourth time, the piece is immersed in the previous solution. In this way, the peacock bass will be definitively fixed and will eliminate traces of cooking in water.
    "When the homeland is in danger, everything is allowed, except not to defend it."

    Gral. Don José de San Martin.

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