Is something wrong with my flaring die? Or is it the brass?

[Cattleman406]

Hey all, im running into a problem here. I managed to find a bag of 100 pieces of new Sig 45 auto brass. My normal routine with new brass is always running it through a sizing die just to make sure, then load as normal. I ran all them through the sizing die and when flaring, they are extremely hard to remove from the flaring die, almost to the point im afraid I'll bend my press handle. It takes quite a bit of force to get them out. I took my flaring die apart and cleaned it, and flared a couple pieces of random mixed brass and it seemed fine. I can't visually see anything wrong inside the case mouths either. Im using the lee 4 die set FWIW.
Thanks

[Martin Luber]

New brass is too clean and it sticks. Stand them all up and hit the mouths with one shot or some other spray lube.

Should work fine

[NSB]

Did you chamfer the case mouths? Even if you flare you have to do that on new brass.

[Sam Sackett]

I would agree. The brass is too clean, so it will have a tendency to hang up in the die. Lube them up a bit and see if that helps. Even a bit of case lube, Crisco, etc on your fingers and wipe some on every other casing. Try to get some inside the mouth of the case. It may be hanging up on the stem.

Sam Sackett

[Renofish]

I agree brass too clean hangs up!
And yes some light lube on the tip of the case mouth will make a big difference. Try that first before you chamfer the inside case neck.


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[ioon44]

[QUOTE=Martin Luber;5192099]New brass is too clean and it sticks. Stand them all up and hit the mouths with one shot or some other spray lube.

Should work fine[/QUOTE


This works for me also, brass wet tumbled with citric acid be sticky and need a shot of one shot.

[243winxb]

Starline reply to the problem - " There are two situations that create this problem. The first is one seems to be associated with the Dillon powder funnel and only a couple of calibers (45 Auto and 40 S&W). The land for expanding case mouth is too long and when you begin to bell mouth the bottom of expander gets into the thicker taper of case and wedges causing it to be very hard to get back out. We have modified several by increasing radius on end and slightly shortening expanding land and this eliminated the problem completely. Call Starline and we will take care of it if you wish. One other cause can be a burr at case mouth created by the final trim operation, which grabs onto expander as it comes back up. This situation does not often appear and can be fixed by deburring case mouth or inside lubing cases."

[ReloaderFred]

Starline isn't correct on this problem. I still have one of the .38 Special new Starline cases I pulled in half trying to extract the expander out of the case. I recycled the several that were stretched beyond use prior to pulling one in half. The top half of the case was on so tight, the only way I got it off was to use a Dremel Tool with a cutting wheel and very carefully cut a slit almost all the way through the stuck case half, and used a pair of needle nose pliers to peel it off. I had previously polished the expander to the point I could see my reflection in it, and the very first case stuck tight and pulled in half. I was using an RCBS expander when this occurred, not a Dillon.

Bare brass, as in new, needs lubrication of some kind when it comes in contact with any other metal. In fired brass, that inside lubrication is supplied by the debris from firing, plus the small amount of dust left from dry tumbling media. Without some kind of either dry or wet lubrication, brass galls to the expander and sticks tight. If you've ever tried to apply threads to brass with a tap, if you didn't use a good tapping fluid, my bet is you've broken a tap, or gotten it stuck really tight.

To the OP, you might want to measure the lengths on the brass that was really tight when you were trying to pull the expander out of them. Some of the new .38 Special brass I stretched that way was really long, with a visible thinning in the middle of the case, just short of separating.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[Walks]

Never had this problem using a Lyman M-die.
And I've loaded both New Starline and Winchester brass.
I polish all expanders when ever I get a new one.
Just another reason to not use dillon products.

[jetinteriorguy]

With the Lee powder through die it helps a lot to polish the heck out of the expander. They’ll still stick a little but will work much better. At least this has helped on all my Lee dies.

[1006]

I have found nickel plated brass likes to stick to the expander-new or fired brass.

[243winxb]

From the Lee help sight.

[243winxb]

This New RCBS 9mm expander came with a black coating Very different from my 1970's dies.
The FL carbide 9mm die has a sleeve that puts a taper on the sized case. The old RCBS carbide ring is gone.

Had to buy a dies set for grandsons new 9mm Taurus G3c. I dont know if all RCBS die set are like this 9mm?



The RCBS die set makes great ammo, even when using mixed range brass.

[Renofish]

when I tumble wet clean the brass cases tend to stick to the expander flare die on my clean brass. when it is nickel casing or light lube it does not
yes polishing helps, but just not enough for me
I go with a very little lube about every other or third depends on the feel

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[Walks]

This New RCBS 9mm expander came with a black coating Very different from my 1970's dies.
The FL carbide 9mm die has a sleeve that puts a taper on the sized case. The old RCBS carbide ring is gone.

Had to buy a dies set for grandsons new 9mm Taurus G3c. I dont know if all RCBS die set are like this 9mm?



The RCBS die set makes great ammo, even when using mixed range brass.

That looks like a modified Lyman M-expander.

[uscra112]

Do we even know yet what make of die the O.P. is using for "flaring"? Until we know that all answers are pure speculation.

I've run into something like this using a Lee .25ACP die for an "off-label" project. The walls of my cases were too thick in that case.

[Renofish]

Answering some else's question will usually amount to speculation if you do not know the components, equipment and other conditions that could be unique to their outcome that prompted their question.
But what I do know from my experience is that perfectly clean brass without any lubricant can result in gummy/sticky brass when being sized. Sizing and flaring brass that has not been cleaned inside and out generally sizes easier then wet tumbled and clean brass. I believe the powder carbon from firing on this brass is generally the reason it sizes easier.
We also need to take other possible variables into consideration.
Range brass that you may pickup from other shooters could also cause differences/variables.
1 different lots or headstamp/manufacturers
2 once fired versus multiple loaded brass that work hardens the brass.
3 differences of thickness of brass
4 the variables of metal composition of the brass of different manufacturers.
It has been my experience that whether using Carbide or steel dies a little lubricant generally improve the process. And sizing sorted brass allows me to question any differences in the energy or feel when sizing which will aid in finding problems before it becomes too late.
The same when priming my brass. If the primer seats to easy, it is time to retire that brass.

Other solutions
1 use only sorted brass fired from your gun with the same headstamp.
2 sort your brass into batches based on number of firings
3 picking up some one's else's range brass of unknown origin and reloading is a risk. Not knowing how many times it has been sizes and reloaded. Or if it might be ready to structural fail on it's next firing is always a risk you my take on range brass.






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[243winxb]

OP is loading with a LEE 4 die set. Its in the first post. 45 auto brass.

[TKG]

I agree with Sam Sackett. And one more thing -if you use Crisco, you’ll never have to trim your cases again. That’s shorting

[uscra112]

OP is loading with a LEE 4 die set. Its in the first post.

??? The Lee set does not include a flaring die.