What's so special about a "Keith" boolit ?

[Lloyd Smale]

If "I" did something I did it. It surely wasn't "We" did it. Now if two or more of us did something together "We" did it.

yup and and when "I" post something on here its because "I" experienced or did it. There is no WE running my casting pot loading machines or shooting and testing what i make or killing deer with them. Hung up on WE. Seems kind of like the liberals handing out trophy's to both teams so that the losers get the same credit as the winner. Come on over and cast a 1000 bullets for me, pc them and load them and when i talk about it THEN i will say we.

[megasupermagnum]

Having likely read every article that Elmer Keith ever wrote in the gun magazines in the middle-late sixties into the seventies, I noted that he gratuitously used the pronoun, "I" in his writings where as the other authurs of the time did not. In short Elmer was always the center of his written endeavors. Compare his writing to O'Conner, Venturino, Askins, Cooper, and even that good gun-fiction that Skelton wrote... well, maybe not Cooper.

Seriously? You're mad because he used the pronoun I when describing things he did himself?

Elmer Keith lived a life worth living. People who live boring lives are either angry they can't live more exciting lives, or don't know what it means. Which are you?

[444ttd]

yup and and when "I" post something on here its because "I" experienced or did it. There is no WE running my casting pot loading machines or shooting and testing what i make or killing deer with them. Hung up on WE. Seems kind of like the liberals handing out trophy's to both teams so that the losers get the same credit as the winner. Come on over and cast a 1000 bullets for me, pc them and load them and when i talk about it THEN i will say we.

+1 fer me!!!!!

[white eagle]

eye for an eye,
I get it

[dahermit]

Seriously? You're mad because he used the pronoun I when describing things he did himself?

Elmer Keith lived a life worth living. People who live boring lives are either angry they can't live more exciting lives, or don't know what it means. Which are you?

The keyword was gratuitous (look it up).

[44MAG#1]

Gratuitous.

1. uncalled for; lacking good reason; unwarranted.
2. given or done free of charge.

According to Webster.

[Tar Heel]

Ok. Back to bullets. the KTSWC is the best all around. Period. I say so. Proven. No further commentary needed. No better bullet exists.

[robertbank]

It is time a mod stepped in and put a fork in this thread. Love him or hate him he was what he was ...a product of his generation and time.

Take care

Bob

[Wally]

Back in the 70's I personally corresponded w/Elmer Keith...asking him questions. Her personally responded to all of them. His responses were short and sweet with no BS.

[44MAG#1]

Back in the 70's I personally corresponded w/Elmer Keith...asking him questions. Her personally responded to all of them. His responses were short and sweet with no BS.

I corresponded with him and kept in touch by phone with him from the mid 70's to shortly before he had the stroke that eventually ended his life, or contributed to his death. He was a nice man. Very willing to talk.

[44MAG#1]

It is time a mod stepped in and put a fork in this thread. Love him or hate him he was what he was ...a product of his generation and time.

Take care

Bob

That would be the definitive answer alright to a post that from the outset had a design to be controversial from the get go.

[Wolfdog91]

.... I've become sooo confused

[44MAG#1]

.... I've become sooo confused

If you are confused by what I said, which I hope not, is when you mention Elmer Keith in a question you have everyone from those who think Keith could do no wrong to those that thinks he is the worst thing to come along. Then they pile on and both sides start telling how great he was and then the others pile on telling how worthless he and his ideas were and how big a liar he was.
That is what I meant. Just when his name is mentioned, watch out.
I think he was a very smart person in knowing what to do and what worked for him. That takes a smart person. In his later years he did very little experimentation. He didn't need to. He was SMART enough to keep doing what worked for him by using what worked.
Did he think his bullet was great, yes he did, just like most of us would do. Are there better bullets, no doubt, since his "KEITH" design has been fiddled with, fooled with, messed with, till with as many variations there are there has got to be some bad "KEITH" bullets out there.
So what, there are a lot of others out there that may be better than a messed up "KEITH" bullet but not any better than a great "KEITH" design.
There are many "KEITH" bullets out in the cast bullet world. Seek, find a few designs, and set out on an experimenting experience, find what works and stick with it.
Sorry if I was the one who confused you. Just meaning when the name Elmer Keith comes up there will be controversy. That is what I meant designed to be controversial whether meant to be or not. Just the name Elmer Keith is all it takes.

[dale2242]

Back in the 70s, a friend of mine and myself would shoot at rocks in the river from a somewhat high vantage point.
I was shooting a S&W M29 and he was shooting a Ruger Blackhawk in 44 mag.
Both of us were shooting Elmers load of 22 gr 2400 and 429421.
We found that we could hit washing machine size rocks at 400-600 yds more often than I thought possible.
Having the rocks surrounded by water made it easier to tell where our bullets were landing.
I have a lot of 44 caliber molds and the 429421 is by far my favorite.

[sharps4590]

The bullet, in its original design, put simply, works for a lot of folks for the same reason it worked for Elmer. Don't like the bullet? Don't cast, buy or shoot it. No big beal. I don't like RNFP so I don't use them.

Almost 50 years with heavy revolvers and all I've ever done is prove almost everything Elmer Keith ever said about them.

[Lloyd Smale]

Ok. Back to bullets. the KTSWC is the best all around. Period. I say so. Proven. No further commentary needed. No better bullet exists.

\\

As you might have noticed im a fan of elmer and his bullet but i dont consider it the best bullet ever designed for handguns. That title would have to go to a man i dont think a whole lot about. Veral smith and his LFN. Its just easier to find accuracy for. Flys better then any design at long range and is every bit as good on game as the kieth. But if you want an arrogant blow hole veral gets my #1 pick right along with his bullet. I chuckle most at his lube. If you ask him your a stupid _____ --- if you dont use it. In my opinion lars on here made better lube at 1/3 the price. Verals lube was ok but it was sure over priced. As was his hardness tester which doesnt compare to a cabin tree or his glorified aluminum lee molds that cost 1/2 again what an rcbs mold cost and as much as a ballistic cast which is 10 times the mold. I chuckle too at his "Best spruce plate ever designed" it a stamped steel thin spruce plate that is cheap to make period. I rate his molds about equal to lees 6 cav molds. Not close to the longevity and quality of an rcbs, ballistic cast, saeco or some of the brass and steel molds made by the custom guys that do the group buys from here. Way to many drank verals kool-aid. Now theres a man who pats himself on the back. truth be told some here have shot more handgun bullets down range in a year then he has in his lifetime. but i sure will give him that pat on the back for bringing us the LFN.

[405grain]

I've got a question for the OP: Hey Wolfdog91, you were asking a question about the Keith type bullet, (man, did you ever whack the hornets nest with that one!). Since this is a revolver bullet, are you contemplating getting a revolver? If so, what caliber? Single action or double action? Folks on this site can give you all kinds of advise about what works and what won't based on the type of gun and what caliber it is. This thread has explored the opinions of the Keith style boolit, so please start another thread and discuss what you might want to apply this type of bullet for.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I have several .44 cal. moulds. My first was Lee 429-240 gc . Those boolits always worked well in the M29 and I could get consistent 1.5" groups at 25 yards with that gun. But I was 28 years old and could shoot better,,, I think?

I got a Magna Mould for a short SWC of 190 gr that runs in a machine. Accuracy was abysmal. never used it again and settled on .429421 as my goto .44 Pistol Boolit. I PC them now but never had any problems with leading barrels in my Ruger SBH or S&W 696 using plain Lubes.

I do .44 Special for my 696 with a MP 429421 mould which allows for 3 different HPs and a solid, but I mostly shoot solids.. I run that same boolit in my Mid Range .44 Magnum loads for my SBH Bisley.

The other mould I use is the MP 429244 CG mould which is used in my Full Power Rifle loads. This one comes out 260 gr and will do the same HP's as the other mould. Mostly run solids there as well.

Both of these boolits offer superb accuracy and work well in the roles they are used in. IE; Short Range Silhouette and Plinking. I would not hesitate to take an Elk with my 1894 CB Rifle and those boolits. The loads I shoot in that rifle are very close to my .45-70 loads which are not near the top end for a .45-70 but right up there for a .44 Magnum Rifle.

But a 325 gr boolit at 1600 fps will still take anything in the US. If hunting Elk with that gun it would get some .405 gr boolits instead of the 325 gr ones I shoot most often. The loads for that gun were sussed out with a usable trajectory out to 200M, and low enough recoil to be able to stand shooting 40-50 rounds in one morning.

I had ambitions of getting a Ruger 77/44 which is very sensitive to OAL of the cartridge. I bought a MP .44 Devastator mould for that, but haven't gotten the gun yet, and have not used the mould yet either. Like all other MP moulds I expect nothing but perfect boolits out of it from the get go.

In closing I see very little use for the Myriad Boolit moulds for the .44 cal. In my opinion you can mostly get by with 429421 and 429244GC or even a Lee 429240GC. And Powder Coating them just makes them run that much nicer. My barrels look like the have been lapped to perfection.

YMMV

Randy

[Wolfdog91]

I've got a question for the OP: Hey Wolfdog91, you were asking a question about the Keith type bullet, (man, did you ever whack the hornets nest with that one!). Since this is a revolver bullet, are you contemplating getting a revolver? If so, what caliber? Single action or double action? Folks on this site can give you all kinds of advise about what works and what won't based on the type of gun and what caliber it is. This thread has explored the opinions of the Keith style boolit, so please start another thread and discuss what you might want to apply this type of bullet for.

Honestly I was just curious. I watch alot if videos and try to read a good bit and I hear alot if guys say stuff along the lines of " yeah my new mold is an original KEITH ! design" but never saw a video or article that point blank explained what that ment. I'm not the kind of person that get told a certain design is good and I just believe it, I need to know some specifics. Why is is so good? For what ? Why was it made ect. Just how my brain works lol. Honestly wasn't trying to start a fire. I know a little about the guy but not too much

[Wolfdog91]

If you are confused by what I said, which I hope not, is when you mention Elmer Keith in a question you have everyone from those who think Keith could do no wrong to those that thinks he is the worst thing to come along. Then they pile on and both sides start telling how great he was and then the others pile on telling how worthless he and his ideas were and how big a liar he was.
That is what I meant. Just when his name is mentioned, watch out.
I think he was a very smart person in knowing what to do and what worked for him. That takes a smart person. In his later years he did very little experimentation. He didn't need to. He was SMART enough to keep doing what worked for him by using what worked.
Did he think his bullet was great, yes he did, just like most of us would do. Are there better bullets, no doubt, since his "KEITH" design has been fiddled with, fooled with, messed with, till with as many variations there are there has got to be some bad "KEITH" bullets out there.
So what, there are a lot of others out there that may be better than a messed up "KEITH" bullet but not any better than a great "KEITH" design.
There are many "KEITH" bullets out in the cast bullet world. Seek, find a few designs, and set out on an experimenting experience, find what works and stick with it.
Sorry if I was the one who confused you. Just meaning when the name Elmer Keith comes up there will be controversy. That is what I meant designed to be controversial whether meant to be or not. Just the name Elmer Keith is all it takes.

O ok makes sense, it's the same thing in the trapping community when you mention O'gorman.