QuickLoads

[JRLesan]

Would like to know if QuickLoads has an existing category for the 450SMC before I plunk down the cost for the program. I have always retrieved my loads from a published manual but the 450 is odd enough that I can no longer find RELIABLE starting load data. I would like to develop a load for a PCC a little hotter than standard +P. Anyone out there have the software that would not mind looking it up???

[earlmck]

My QL version 3.6 (on older version) does have your 450SMC listed.

[JRLesan]

Thank you, Earl. I'll now proceed with acquisition.

[uscra112]

Even if it's not in the default database, you can create a custom entry easily enough.

[Multra]

Have you looked at Gordons reloading tool? It's free and updated frequently. You can create custom profiles or even import QL data.

[uscra112]

Link?

[RoyEllis]

Link?

http://www.grtools.de/

Easy to find with a quick search......

[uscra112]

Who's doing the testing to establish powder performance parameters? I didn't see it if it's there. That's a lot of lab work that QL does themselves.

[megasupermagnum]

Is there any reason 45 super data doesn't work with 45 SMC?

I have quick loads, and I think it is huge waste of my money. Apparently it is reasonably useful in large bottle neck cartridges. You know, cartridges you can get reliable pressure signs from anyway. I've found QL to suck with straight wall cartridges. Sometimes it's close enough, and sometimes it is so far out in left field, I can't believe people trust this for actual starting points. I think a huge problem with the program is that lacks a good selection of bullets. I mean, they list a bazzilion cartridges, but you only get one or two reasonable bullets for a caliber. There's only one 230 grain 45 caliber pistol bullet, and it is some odd discontinued bullet. There isn't even a 45 caliber FMJ bullet.

You can edit all the parameters, but how are you supposed to know what you are doing? There is some kind of friction multiplier unique to every bullet. It all adds up to being a disaster in a cartridge such as this, where .050" seating depth can make a huge difference. They also list maybe half of the powders available today, and that might be generous.

To answer your question, yes they list 450 SMC. QL makes such a big deal when you buy it, I'm not sure if I'm allowed to sell it or not. I'd gladly sell you mine.

[uscra112]

How many kinds of commercial bullets are there? Ten thousand? Twenty? Don't get in a tizzy because the exact one you want isn't there. Defining a bullet takes about two minutes. Add it to the database and you have it forever. I'm using it for obsolete cartridges, so I have to define a bullet almost every time. A couple or three times I've had to define the case, too, That takes a little longer since I have to do the water-capacity test.

There is no "friction multiplier" parameter for bullets. There is a "shot start" parameter which is an approximation of the pressure needed to engrave the bullet in its' initial travel. I use an arbitrary low number because I'm shooting plain cast bullets. If I were using jacketed, and i wasn't using a bullet from their database, I'd pick a similar one and use the number from that.

QL is a modelling software. It isn't intended to predict a maximum load for any cartridge with precision, because no mathematical model can. Especially true of hot ones. They make this pretty clear before you buy it.

If that's what you expect, yes, you should stop using it. Get yourself a pressure-measuring rig and a test barrel and action, or beg for data from the manufacturers.

So far it has never let me down but once - their case volume for the long obsolete black-powder 40-65 round was taken from a balloon-head case, and we were using modern solid head cases. Every other time the model has agreed quite well with the Chrony.

[Multra]

Who's doing the testing to establish powder performance parameters? I didn't see it if it's there. That's a lot of lab work that QL does themselves.

They get the data from powder manufacturers.

[uscra112]

And as they themselves admit, some mfgrs. won't supply it, so they have a workaround that (hopefully) provides an approximation.

Free is always worth what you pay for it.

[popper]

GRT will allow importing cases into it from QL. I use GRT for 300BO, almost straight wall and seems to be accurate.

[megasupermagnum]

How many kinds of commercial bullets are there? Ten thousand? Twenty? Don't get in a tizzy because the exact one you want isn't there. Defining a bullet takes about two minutes. Add it to the database and you have it forever. I'm using it for obsolete cartridges, so I have to define a bullet almost every time. A couple or three times I've had to define the case, too, That takes a little longer since I have to do the water-capacity test.

There is no "friction multiplier" parameter for bullets. There is a "shot start" parameter which is an approximation of the pressure needed to engrave the bullet in its' initial travel. I use an arbitrary low number because I'm shooting plain cast bullets. If I were using jacketed, and i wasn't using a bullet from their database, I'd pick a similar one and use the number from that.

QL is a modelling software. It isn't intended to predict a maximum load for any cartridge with precision, because no mathematical model can. Especially true of hot ones. They make this pretty clear before you buy it.

If that's what you expect, yes, you should stop using it. Get yourself a pressure-measuring rig and a test barrel and action, or beg for data from the manufacturers.

So far it has never let me down but once - their case volume for the long obsolete black-powder 40-65 round was taken from a balloon-head case, and we were using modern solid head cases. Every other time the model has agreed quite well with the Chrony.

Quick loads has 183 bullets listed between all calibers, and the great majority are 22 and 30 caliber rifles. They have four bullets that would be suitable in most 45 caliber handguns, and one 300 gr for strong 45 caliber handguns. Here's the thing, they don't have any standard for caliber bullets. 45 caliber, they do list a 260 grain, which I suppose would work in 45 colt. The only 230 grain they list is an odd cup point target bullet. They don't have anything close in 44 caliber to a 240-250 grain bullet. They list a single 41 caliber bullet, and it is 220 grains, not the standard 210 grain. While I admit there is an acceptable range of 38 bullet, they do not have a single 32 caliber bullet. They list at least five different 32 caliber cartridges, but not a single bullet!

There most certainly is a a friction modifier input. That is what all those bullets listed have. You can change the dimensions to match your own bullet, but unless you know what your friction multiplier is, you are shooting in the dark. Here is an example if we take a 357 magnum, which is about the only caliber I can do a side by side comparison. I'll use a 180 grain Hornady CI-SIL verses the 180 grain Nosler Partition, both seated to the same shank seating depth of .400", which gives a vastly different COAL. Both also with 16 grains H110, with a 6" barrel.

Hornady (1.549" OAL)- 34,556 psi and 1388 fps
Nosler (1.698" OAL)- 40,140 psi and 1377 fps

Now the real test is if I take that Nosler bullet, and change the bullet length to match the Hornady, which is 0.659". So now every bullet dimension will be exactly the same as the Hornady, except what QL has for a friction modifier.

Nosler modified to Hornady dimensions (1.549" OAL)- 40,160 psi and 1377 fps.

Seriously, Quickloads is a waste of money unless they update it with 4 times as many bullets as they have now, and about double their current powder selection. They have all kinds of obsolete powder, but nothing new. There is no American Select, which has been out for something like 20-25 years. They don't even list 300-MP. You can hand me a couple reloading manuals, and I can give you a starting point for data at least as accurately as Quickloads can.

Like I said, sometimes QL is reasonably close, and sometimes it is WAY off when it should not be. Bluedot is horrible in QL. I do own pressure testing equipment, and it is worth every penny.

[JRLesan]

First off, 450SMC cases are intended for small rifle primers whereas 45+P and 45 Super use large pistol or (possibly) small pistol. That fact will change pressure levels. Secondly, I'm trying to develop a load for either an 8'' bbl or a 16" bbl; hopefully one load for both but not a deal breaker if I can't. Lastly, I only have a certain selection of suitable powders at hand (unfortunately no Power Pistol left which would be way up toward the top of my choices). I swage (or can swage) my own .452's as I have a goodly supply of pistol jackets.

I don't have a clue where to start except blindly which is why I was hoping QL might be the answer I was looking for. If one reads the advertising hype, it would seem the program makes suggestions on the best powder choices for a particular cartridge but perhaps not... In my situation, would QL be helpful or worthless for a starting point?

[megasupermagnum]

List what powders you would like to use, and the exact dimensions of the bullet you would like to use, and I can run it in the program. Then you can decide what you would like to do. I'll list one below. About the only bullets they list that would be suitable or this would be the 230 gr Sierra FPJ, which is a shallow HP, almost a cup point, truncated cone flat nose jacketed bullet. It is similar to the Hornady HAP. They also list a 260 gr Freedom Arms spfn, which I can only assume is a jacketed soft nose bullet. I just noticed another powder they don't list is IMR 800x. That should be a good choice for this cartridge. They don't list 700x either.

450 SMC
230 gr Sirra FPJ
1.250" OAL
0.280" shank depth

It looks like Herco would be a good choice. QL predicts with the above parameters, 7.8 gr Herco will produce 25,776 psi and 1,136 fps from an 8" barrel. There is an option to bring up a table of incremental powder charges.

[uscra112]

Maybe you'd be so kind as to point me to where this "friction modifier" parameter is entered, because I sure can't find it. Is this something they've added since V.3.6?

BTW even my old Version 3.6 has over 2000 bullets listed. Click on the file\xxxxx just above the bullet selection bar and choose your manufacturer.

[Krag 1901]

GRT is developed in Germany and I down loaded it today, the Linux Mint version. Sr=till looking for the way to install it though. They list a way to load all the supporting files but not how to load the program. I can't even find the program file in the archive?

Popper., I think you use the Linux vesion, don't you? Any hints as to how to load the program?

[uscra112]

Aaaah, Linux. Don't let me get started !!!

[megasupermagnum]

Maybe you'd be so kind as to point me to where this "friction modifier" parameter is entered, because I sure can't find it. Is this something they've added since V.3.6?

BTW even my old Version 3.6 has over 2000 bullets listed. Click on the file\xxxxx just above the bullet selection bar and choose your manufacturer.

Wow, you just opened up a whole new world to me. Even NECO, who I bought Quickloads from was no help. Yes, thank you. Now I can find thousands of bullets, even cast bullets.

I have V3.9, and there is a check mark box called friction-proofed. You check that, and you can enter the friction multiplier.