Interesting issue with my CZ 457 varmint MTR

[Forrest r]

Typically you wouldn't have that high of a torque setting. Pillar bedding opens up a new world.

That video shows 2 things.

How the actual torque setting can change the group size.
As the torque setting change the poi also changes.

[tazman]

I got to the range and the rain and wind stopped just as I prepared to shoot. Near perfect conditions. Overcast, so no shadows only and the occasional breath of wind. I can't blame anything on wind today.
I had the recoil lug removed from the rifle for all shooting today.
I tried torque settings from 15 inch pounds through 40 inch pounds.
It turned out the rifle liked the same setting(30 inch pounds) that it did with the recoil lug in place. I would get 9 out of 10 shots into a small(about 2 bullet diameters) ragged hole with a flyer that would lose points. This with Eley Tenex ammunition.
I tried some other ammunition from Eley that I had on hand as well. Eley Match and another lot of Tenex. All of it shot pretty much the same.
I was getting the same accuracy with the rifle before removing the lug, so when I got home, I put it back in.

I did notice a small splinter of wood inside the cutout for the lug at the bottom of the hole. I removed that and now with the lug in place, there doesn't seem to be any stress on the receiver when tightened down and the screw fits in the threads to the same depth as without the lug.

Anyway, I don't think I will do any more testing with the lug since it made no difference if it was in or out. The torque setting seems to be right where it is best for this rifle.
I may experiment with other ammo if I can find any and see what happens. This will undoubtedly take some time since none is currently available.

[uscra112]

That nasty splinter!

[OS OK]

check this out tazman...I think he has the same rifle as you?

https://www.thereloadersnetwork.com/...match-special/

Maybe you can locate some of that SK ammo?

[tazman]

Good video.
I have been following his testing(Buffalo Outdoors) because he does have the same rifle I do.
I would love to get my hands on some SK ammo to try. Can't find any. Can't find much of anything at the moment.
I don't want to burn through the match ammo I have until I can have more on hand.
I do have some second tier target/match ammo to practice with, but it doesn't give the same accuracy as the good stuff.

There is another guy(Pursuit of Accuracy) on the tube that uses the same rifle for testing. He is getting his best groups with Lapua.
I did some testing with Lapua earlier and got groups basically the equal of the Eley Match or Tenex.

I believe SK is made by Lapua.
I believe Wolf is now made by Eley and I am wondering which level of quality the Wolf compares to?

[OS OK]

I don't get it about using 'practice ammo'...'practice with/for what end?'
If the ammo is mediocre then the feedback sucks, means nothing to me. Can't tell if something your doing is going south or the ammo stinks.
I need positive feedback & if the data is bad...what do we learn?

Maybe I have a wrong perspective?

[tazman]

I don't get it about using 'practice ammo'...'practice with/for what end?'
If the ammo is mediocre then the feedback sucks, means nothing to me. Can't tell if something your doing is going south or the ammo stinks.
I need positive feedback & if the data is bad...what do we learn?

Maybe I have a wrong perspective?

I lean that way myself but I can't afford to shoot as much as I want with the good stuff. I just have to accept the fact the groups won't be the same size.

[303Guy]

I don't get it about using 'practice ammo'...'practice with/for what end?'
If the ammo is mediocre then the feedback sucks, means nothing to me. Can't tell if something your doing is going south or the ammo stinks.
I need positive feedback & if the data is bad...what do we learn?

Maybe I have a wrong perspective?

With cheap but lousy ammo, one is practicing sight picture and trigger let-off control. Maybe it would be better shooting at a swinging gong where any hit counts and not make the gong too small.

[uscra112]

With cheap but lousy ammo, one is practicing sight picture and trigger let-off control..

Right. Developing "muscle memory". What little of such practice as I have done, I didn't look at the target, I just tried to remember whether my sight picture at letoff was right. Harry Pope made a point about this.

[OS OK]

I don't shoot like that in this BR dicipline. I mean that I don't think 'shoot' and then purposely let'er loose by pressing the trigger.

Instead, as the sights are slowly weaving around that 1/8" X spot, I am ever so gently adding pressure to the trigger each time I get an alignment.
About the 2'nd or 3'rd time...'BLAM'...she goes off & surprises me. It' doesn't take too much intentional pressure to set off a 10 ounce trigger.
On rifles like the MKII, I think it's trigger pressure is 2 pounds & 8 ounces but it's the same principal, after the first dozen shots your finger re-calibrates it's incremental pressure to work within your breath window and your back in business 'surprising yourself'.
The important part is that your surprise happens with as perfect of a sight alignment as you can manage. The 36 power scope demands that type release as it will show you even the slightest of heartbeats will throw your alignment off by a full 1/8".

If I don't get that positive feedback of seeing that round cut target where my cross-hairs were last pointing when the round released, then I don't know that I've done my part correctly.
Lousy ammo will not show your actual POA on release with the POI.

[tazman]

I am using a 24 power scope on one rifle and a 18 on the other. You would think any movement would show and it seems to.
Once I get settled in on my target, I don't see any more movement. It just sits there.
I do a slow squeeze and the shot always surprises me.
Most of the time, the crosshairs don't move from the aiming point during or after the shot. The bullet hole will appear near the spot the crosshairs were located but not always directly on that spot. My rifles aren't bughole accurate.
I can hold well enough to shoot groups under 1 inch at 200 yards with my centerfire rifles but can't get my rimfire rifles to shoot anywhere close to that accuracy level.

[303Guy]

I'm used to not seeing my impact but now with my 12 power (I think it's a 12 power?) at 25m I can usually see the impact but not as a feedback. For me the 12 power makes me aware of movement (I'm not getting any heartbeat effect) and helps me concentrate on that let-off. And I have to concentrate! I don't have light and crisp triggers. Mine are sporter triggers and it's damn difficult to let off at the right moment. For me, I could practice with cheap ammo but I would like that feed back.

[tazman]

On a side note, CZ sends a graphic printout of a group fired with match grade ammunition with every 22lr rifle it sells.. I have them for a couple of the rifles I have.
I was having accuracy issues with a 455 American. I did fine at 25 yards and barely adequate at 50 for the squirrel hunting I intended to use it for.
Today, I found the printout for the group they sent with the rifle. 27mm at 50 yards. Almost exactly what I was getting with it. No amount of torque changing or ammunition testing would improve on that. Many brands of ammo did much worse.

The MTR printout showed a 14mm group. Slightly over half an inch. I have found ammo that improves on that somewhat.
I have a 455 Varmint that the printout showed 15mm and Eley Match easily beats that group size in that rifle.
I must say CZ has been honest with their group testing as far as the printouts they send with their rifles. I have been able to match or improve on every reported group size they sent with rifles I own.
Kudos to CZ.