Max Velocity And Pressure For 30-30 Case Life

[jonp]

Any thoughts on where the sweet spot is for longevity in the 30-30 to get maximum life out of the brass? Not pfttt powder puff loads but loads that will do something.

Is there a range to stay within where if you go above it you will rapidly decrease brass life?

[popper]

Middle range loads. If you get one that splits in the neck, anneal the remaining. Generally they wear out due to firing and sizing, not the load.

[jim147]

Cast or jacketed? For,jacketed BL-C(2). Or lever revolution.

[Shawlerbrook]

Yes, middle range 30 30 loads should last a while. I would imagine the heavy crimp required for tubular magazines is more a limiting factor than velocity or pressures.

[jonp]

Cast or jacketed? For,jacketed BL-C(2). Or lever revolution.

Both.

[Winger Ed.]

The most accurate and mid-range load for sure to conserve powder, and minimize the wear & tear on the rifle as much as anything.
Then do the minimal amount of flare & crimp.
Anel once in awhile, and they should go and go.

I never counted how many times they've been loaded, but---
I've got some .30-06 and .308s from the 80s that are still on the job by doing that.

[Wilderness]

Jonp - I actually have some data on this. This relates to case stretch, the end point of which is head separation.

I do not crimp or trim .30-30s, since my chambers are quite long. I FLS with a .025" clearance between die and shell holder. This puts cases into shoulder contact with chamber so I feel a gentle nip on the lever as I close.

My once fired cases usually start at around 2.030" (Win) - 2.035" (R-P).

In a separate observation with hunting loads - 175 gn HPGC at 2150 fps - one batch of Winchester cases revealed cull-worthy stretch signs at 2.055" to 2.065", indicating a "life" of about .030". The shorter ones may have had some minor squaring off trims earlier in their lives. I did not record times fired for those cases.

For my R-P competition cases (LAS) I have both stretch and times fired data. My non-ram loads (180 cases) have varied from subsonic to 1500 fps. Total case stretch over 10 loads has been .004" (.0004"/shot). My ram loads (20 case x 178 - 186 gn bullets at 1900 - 1950 fps) have stretched .016" in 28 loads (starting after 9 light loads), i.e. .0006" /shot. This brass will not die from head separations, or from mouth cracks. Neck splits might eventually get some, since I am not annealing. By then I'll be looking for a new brass excuse anyway.

Stepping up to hunting loads, this time with more limited data (groups of five or six, measured on just one reload), Winchester brass, and a different rifle, though with cases still sized for shoulder headspacing: HPGC LVR 2200 case growth .002" - .003"; LVR 2280 case growth .003" - .006"; LVR jacketed 150 & 170 gn max .003" - .004". Other HPGC hunting loads were around the .002" - .003" mark.

So, do the sums - .030" stretch until death, divided by case stretch for that load level.

My direct answer to your question would be that with 170 gn bullets at sub 2000 fps velocities with proper case processing, your cases should last until you get sick of them.

Incidentally, there is the oft repeated advice of testing for case stretch with a bent paper clip inside the case. If you live somewhere with decent sunlight, you can equally just get the sunlight down inside the case and look for the stretch ring near the head. After a shot or two there will always be some sort of ring, and over time it will advance into a shadow, and eventually it will reveal itself on the outside of the case as a ring of crazed metal. If that is ignored, the next step is head separation. By watching it from the inside you can develop a feel for when enough is enough, and can cull the offenders without resorting to group punishment. The best tutorial is to find a case with a partial separation and see what that looks like from the inside.

[Land Owner]

Mid range 34.5 gr. Win 748
150 gr. SPEER FP
All day. Every day.

See Lyman #48 on line...

[cwtebay]

I still have cases from junior high (many, many years ago) that I've reloaded probably 30ish times with 150+/- gr cast ate 1650fps. I had nothing but a Lee Loader for the first 10 years of their life ( so neck sized only), used only in my 1896 vintage 1894 sporting rifle. I also have a SRC that I use hotter loads in, case life around 15ish with 170gr jacketed at 2100fps. I do trim as needed, lightly crimp with a Lee FCD.

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

[Harter66]

What you're shooting them in will have as much influence as what you're shooting in them . Lever actions of some designs will let cases stretch more than break actions that will stretch more than a bolt action that is headspacing on the shoulder and has resistance the last half of the bolt cam .

[243winxb]

H4895 -27.5 grs 170 gr lead GC or jacketed for the 30-30

[Larry Gibson]

Case life with loads jonp asks for ["Not pfttt powder puff loads but loads that will do something."] in the 30-30 is totally dependent on the method of sizing not on the load or pressure there of.

Even max loads in the 30-30 have relatively low psi compared to many rifle cartridges. Also, it is oft repeated one absolutely must full length size the cases. That is not necessarily true. If loading for only one rifle the 30-30 cases may be neck sized and used for several firings before any chambering difficulty. Full length sizing ill lead to incipient case head separations as mentioned in previous posts greatly reducing case life. Using a "small base" die will further exacerbate shortness of case life.

Get a NS die and use it whenever possible. For years I used a Redding NS die and simply kept the cases germane to the rifle they were used in. I got 3-5 firings with full powered 30-30 loads before chambering became a problem. I simply partial FL sized for easy chambering and then NS'd again.

However, years back when the RCBS X-Die became available I getting one for the 30-30 was on the top of my list. Since getting the X-Die I now size the cases to just chamber in the smallest chamber of the three 30-30 rifles I have [two M94s and a Contender Carbine]. I now can use the same ammo in all three rifles. Case life is as good as ever as so for I only "lose" a case when I can find it on the ground..... Additionally I no longer have to trim any cases as the X-Die stops case stretch during sizing.

As to powders with full power loads; for general practice I use 4895 under a 311041 or a 311291 for 1850 1900 fps which is a pleasant, fun and accurate load. For hunting with 150 or 170 gr jacketed or the 311041 HP I use LeveRevolution powder. I get lower psi (measured) at 150 - 250 fps higher velocities with top end load than with "traditional" powders. Accuracy is also excellent. With 125/130 gr jacketed bullets I prefer H335 but AA2230 or BLC2 also do fine. With the GC'd 311316 (115-118 gr 32-20 bullets) I push them with Unique to equal the old 32-20 HV load.

[Hick]

Yes, middle range 30 30 loads should last a while. I would imagine the heavy crimp required for tubular magazines is more a limiting factor than velocity or pressures.

You only need the heavy crimp for very hot loads. I get 20+ reloads out of mine in my Win 94 lever, but I do not crimp. Over 17,000 rounds loaded and never had a bullet get pushed into the case in the magazine.

[Wilderness]

Re case sizing: One of the first jobs for my then new Oehler chronograph in 1980 was to compare .308 loads differing only in case sizing - FLS vs NS. The FLS cases produced approx 50 fps more velocity. I did not get to try new brass. I have never run the comparison with .30-30.

Velocities and zeros established with NS cases may be disturbed if FLS cases are used with the same load. Just saying, be aware of it and, if necessary, segregate.

[William Yanda]

Re case sizing: One of the first jobs for my then new Oehler chronograph in 1980 was to compare .308 loads differing only in case sizing - FLS vs NS. The FLS cases produced approx 50 fps more velocity. I did not get to try new brass. I have never run the comparison with .30-30.

Velocities and zeros established with NS cases may be disturbed if FLS cases are used with the same load. Just saying, be aware of it and, if necessary, segregate.

Interesting. Any thoughts on why the difference between neck sized and full length sized? Were the crimps equal?

[Win94ae]

I have well over 100 shots with quite a few 30-30 cases in my Win94ae. These are regular loads, usually over book max load suggestion.
I attribute the case life to neck sizing only, accompanied with a reduction in charge weight, if the case needed full length sizing down the road.

[AZ Pete]

as has been eluded to, the key to case life is to adjust your sizing die to have the case head space on the shoulder not the rim.

[Wilderness]

Interesting. Any thoughts on why the difference between neck sized and full length sized? Were the crimps equal?

No crimp, same brass, just reduced case volume after FLS.

[jonp]

Larry, as usual, and Wilderness provided what I'm looking for in information. Thanks to everyone. I'm loading new Starling brass for a 30-30 AE I bought several years ago but have not shot yet.

[popper]

Load some full power, fire and check case dimensions. The sizing die should ALMOST set HS on the shoulder. FL or NS (specially with cast) the neck part of the sizer needs to be so as to give a thous or so neck tension. Constant squeezing and expanding causes the cracks, annealing makes them last longer. I use the Lee fcd to remove flare. Some load so that the ogive actually sets HS, I don't like to do that. Lever guns don't have the locking strength.