Lee PrecisionRepackboxLoad DataMidSouth Shooters Supply
RotoMetals2Reloading EverythingInline FabricationWideners
Titan Reloading
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 28

Thread: Vista Ammunition Producers

  1. #1
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    2,725

    Vista Ammunition Producers

    Anoka, Minnesota-based Vista Outdoors produces ammunition under the CCI, Federal, Speer, and Remington brands.

    I have a question for those who "know".
    I specialize in 22 rim fire ammo. Having measured and inspected various different brands, I have found that there are production differences in these various brands.
    Especially between Remington and CCI.
    The question is this:
    Will Vista, now that they own Remington, bring Remington rim fire ammunition "up to" the standards of CCI and Federal?
    (moderator, if this is posted in the wrong forum please move it for me, thanks)

  2. #2
    Moderator


    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Way up in the Cascades
    Posts
    8,073
    Forgive me for saying so, but isn't that a question you'd have to direct to Vista? Personally, I've never had much trouble with Remington .22 ammo. Maybe a once-in-a- year dud. Also, I've heard plenty of complaints here on this Forum about "cheap Federal ammo." CCI does seem to be the recipient of fewer complaints. At the moment one is lucky to get any of it!

    DG

  3. #3
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    2,725
    Quote Originally Posted by Der Gebirgsjager View Post
    Forgive me for saying so, but isn't that a question you'd have to direct to Vista? Personally, I've never had much trouble with Remington .22 ammo. Maybe a once-in-a- year dud. Also, I've heard plenty of complaints here on this Forum about "cheap Federal ammo." CCI does seem to be the recipient of fewer complaints. At the moment one is lucky to get any of it!

    DG
    I asked here because the engineers for at least some of those plants frequent this forum.

  4. #4
    Boolit Grand Master In Remembrance
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    South Jersey
    Posts
    6,314
    Traffer, what is your definition of “up to standards”
    I didn’t know ther was different standards with US made rimfires. The different quality standard for rimfires to US brands are the likes of Eley, Lapua and Wolf
    PS... my black powder reload 22’s will tear the centers out of targets at 50 yards with vintage Ballard & Stevens single shots with vernier iron sights
    Last edited by John Boy; 05-11-2021 at 10:41 PM.
    Regards
    John

  5. #5
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    2,725
    Specifically the pull weight of the crimp. Remington rim fire has measurably less consistent crimp.

  6. #6
    Boolit Mold
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Location
    Lancaster Co., PA
    Posts
    18
    Vista is a George Soros company

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Plymouth County, IA
    Posts
    708
    I wouldn't expect to see a change, guessing they will just keep the lines going....when the can get the materials to run it.
    Take a kid to the range, you'll both be glad you did.

  8. #8
    Boolit Grand Master
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Northern Michigan
    Posts
    8,898
    IMHO, when .22 LR is selling for over $50/brick, if you can get it, there is no incentive to improve its quality. I doubt even "normal" preventive maintenance is being done on the machines producing the stuff. They are (or should be) running full out to meet demand.

    Strange as it may sound...most companies are not stupid. There is no incentive to improve quality unless they can increase market share. So until consumers have a choice, even Remington Thunderduds will fly off the shelves for at least the next 6 months.
    Don Verna


  9. #9
    Boolit Master


    Burnt Fingers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    Tejas
    Posts
    1,938
    Quote Originally Posted by Slim Chance Pistolero View Post
    Vista is a George Soros company
    Links? Proof??
    NRA Benefactor.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
    dtknowles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Southeast Louisiana
    Posts
    4,858
    Quote Originally Posted by Slim Chance Pistolero View Post
    Vista is a George Soros company
    In what way is George Soros involved with the company

    https://vistagroup.co.nz/board-and-management.html

    https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/VSTO/holders

    https://fintel.io/so/us/vsto/soros-fund-management-llc

    It is not good to post lies to this forum.

    It is not hard to check what you post to make sure you are not spreading lies. You owe it to us.

    Tim
    Last edited by dtknowles; 05-12-2021 at 01:52 PM.
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
    dtknowles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Southeast Louisiana
    Posts
    4,858
    Quote Originally Posted by dverna View Post
    IMHO, when .22 LR is selling for over $50/brick, if you can get it, there is no incentive to improve its quality. I doubt even "normal" preventive maintenance is being done on the machines producing the stuff. They are (or should be) running full out to meet demand.

    Strange as it may sound...most companies are not stupid. There is no incentive to improve quality unless they can increase market share. So until consumers have a choice, even Remington Thunderduds will fly off the shelves for at least the next 6 months.
    It would seem to be short sighted to not do proper PM's on equipment. PM's prevent damage to the equipment that could lead to long production delays and reduced output.

    I would think that companies like Ely who have a reputation to protect and who can charge a premium because of the reputation would not relax any quality standards as that would damage the brand and reduce profits.

    I am not buying any .22 lr right now for a lot of reasons. I am sure you are right that some produces are cutting corners.

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

  12. #12
    Boolit Grand Master In Remembrance
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    South Jersey
    Posts
    6,314
    All that I know about 22 rim fires for all the manufactures is that small caliber brass round stock is a severe shortage from the manufactures and case makers are backlogged
    Source: Jeff Roberson, President Roberson Cartridge Company
    I'm in a long wait to have fifty 25-10 cases made for Remington 44 1/2 rifle
    Regards
    John

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Western, MO
    Posts
    629
    If they make .22 at the Arkansas plant they said they rebuilt/retooled everything before reopening.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    New Market, Iowa
    Posts
    1,466
    Quote Originally Posted by Slim Chance Pistolero View Post
    Vista is a George Soros company
    A couple of others have asked for proof, so I will also, even though this is not the first time I have heard that same info from different sources. It is next to impossible sometimes to find the REAL owner of these large corporations.

  15. #15
    Boolit Buddy


    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Location
    Tug Hill, NY
    Posts
    107
    Vista Outdoor is a publicly traded company.
    Anyone, including Soros can buy shares in the company. That does not make it a Soros company.

    Information on their Board of Directors:

    https://vistaoutdoor.com/investors-i...-of-directors/

  16. #16
    Boolit Grand Master
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Northern Michigan
    Posts
    8,898
    Quote Originally Posted by dtknowles View Post
    It would seem to be short sighted to not do proper PM's on equipment. PM's prevent damage to the equipment that could lead to long production delays and reduced output.

    I would think that companies like Ely who have a reputation to protect and who can charge a premium because of the reputation would not relax any quality standards as that would damage the brand and reduce profits.

    I am not buying any .22 lr right now for a lot of reasons. I am sure you are right that some produces are cutting corners.

    Tim
    The OP specifically questioned the quality of Remington....not Eley. I would not expect Eley to make stupid manufacturing decisions....Remington bargain 22’s...well....they did not call them Thunderduds without reason.

    As to PM....I worked in manufacturing all my life. At one time ran the maintenance department for a $65 factory...PM’s would get delayed many times when market demands pushed for production. Just my experience from over 40 years in four companies.

    An engineer insisting on doing PM will need to convince management there will be a catastrophic failure that will result in extended downtime, or safety issues to justify shutting down production when marketing and sales are demanding product.
    Don Verna


  17. #17
    Boolit Mold
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Location
    Lancaster Co., PA
    Posts
    18
    follow this link and the many more that can be found on Google on this subject ...
    https://www.ibtimes.com/political-ca...le-backing-gun

  18. #18
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    109
    Wow he owns $11m, if that, in a company w/ a market cap of $2b.
    "A spokesperson for Soros Fund Management declined to comment on the firm’s holdings, citing company policy. But Soros’ fund has sold most of its Vista holdings and no longer owns Olin stock, according to a source familiar with the companies."
    Last edited by Multra; 05-13-2021 at 10:18 AM.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master
    dtknowles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Southeast Louisiana
    Posts
    4,858
    Quote Originally Posted by Slim Chance Pistolero View Post
    follow this link and the many more that can be found on Google on this subject ...
    https://www.ibtimes.com/political-ca...le-backing-gun
    That article is from 2016, his funds sold their holding since then.

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

  20. #20
    Boolit Master
    dtknowles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Southeast Louisiana
    Posts
    4,858
    Quote Originally Posted by dverna View Post
    The OP specifically questioned the quality of Remington....not Eley. I would not expect Eley to make stupid manufacturing decisions....Remington bargain 22’s...well....they did not call them Thunderduds without reason.

    As to PM....I worked in manufacturing all my life. At one time ran the maintenance department for a $65 factory...PM’s would get delayed many times when market demands pushed for production. Just my experience from over 40 years in four companies.

    An engineer insisting on doing PM will need to convince management there will be a catastrophic failure that will result in extended downtime, or safety issues to justify shutting down production when marketing and sales are demanding product.
    I guess I work in a different environment. Not doing PM's in my world will get the equipment shutdown by quality. If Production Operations wants to delay PM's they have to show that it will not cause quality or safety problems and get Quality Management to extend the intervals. In our factory you have to verify current PM's and Calibrations before you can run a job. If the system shows the PM's or Calibrations are out of date the job order can't even be issue to the floor to be worked. I guess it depends on how much Quality and Safety matters to the business. Any Quality Manager who will cave to production pressure does not deserve the title.

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check