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Thread: Shot and Slug load data

  1. #1

    Shot and Slug load data

    Hey,

    I am new to reloading shotshell. I've just been collecting components so far, which has been slower than expected.

    Anyway, I'm not being lazy. I am compiling load data from the net and waiting for a suppliers manual order before I place an online order. All I have been able to find locally are Win WAA12 and Claybuster clone WAA12L wads. Federal 209A, Cheddite CX200, and Remington STS primers. I have once fired Universal, Top Gun, and Clever T1 hulls, and I picked up Red and Green Dot to add to my supply of Universal powder. I have cast some Lee key drive slugs and #4 shot.

    Without a manual I am not 100% confident to jump in to a load, especially cross referencing off the hop. Does anyone have a favorite load with any combination of these components? I haven't found data that calls for the specific hulls, but I have found I can use cheddite data for T1, and others are using Gold Medal data too. I would just appreciate some reassurance, or a load you like that I can reference to tighten my searches..
    Last edited by castinboolits; 05-11-2021 at 01:00 AM.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master

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    Scott

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  3. #3
    I do appreciate the reply, but I have been scouring all this info, plus youtube and other downloadable data. I'm only hesitant because I can't find a shotshell manual for the life of me. I will have one soon. However, without being able to read up to really get an understanding of the components, I struggle to jump in based on a random forum comment I found of 'I use cheddite data for T1'. I can't find any data with these hulls, and I don't want to trust random info and do something stupid.

    I'm just being cautious because of all the follow the load data warnings.

    I was hoping for someone to confirm that they are succesfully and safely loading with these components, or point me in a direction where I can find data for these specific hulls, or even verify what hull data they are using for T1, Universal, or Top Gun hulls for reference so I at least have confirmation of what I am finding in my searches...



    Cheers.

  4. #4
    Boolit Buddy
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    Trap shooter.com.
    Good info there

  5. #5
    Boolit Master

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    The Lyman 5th edition shotshell reloading handbook is available at Cabelas & many other outlets. Ballistic Products offers several manuals with tons of data.

    Bob
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  6. #6
    Boolit Master gpidaho's Avatar
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    Federal has load data for Top Gun hulls on their site. Gp

  7. #7
    Boolit Grand Master

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    I don't worry too much about hulls as long as they are the same type... if tapered wall hulls like WIN AA then use recipes for those hulls. If straight walled hulls I use recipes for straight walled hulls of about same volume. The wad column may have to be adjusted a bit but I have not had a problem doing this as long as payload, primer and powder are from a published or known safe recipe.

    Don't try stuffing a recipe for a large capacity straight walled hull into a tapered wall hull! Not only won't it fit without changing wad column but the shape and "combustion chamber" size in tapered wall hulls is smaller and could lead to increased pressure.

    Other than a loading manual which should have pics of the different shotshells, this may help some:

    https://pipesf16.wordpress.com/12-ga-2-75-hull-volumes/

    and

    https://pipesf16.wordpress.com/hull-...hey-explained/

    Also, if you peruse the load data here you will find a number of recipes using Cheddite hulls:

    https://www.ballisticproducts.com/lo...eekarchive.htm

    Longbow

  8. #8
    No offense intended, Bob, but if I could find a manual for under $100 I would have it. There is nothing available locally, and I mean local including domestic delivery. As stated I am waiting for a supplier who is expecting a shipment to restock his manuals. I plan to order lyman, as well as shot and slug specific manuals, in the meantime I am trying to ensure I don't confuse things and do something stupid.

  9. #9
    Boolit Buddy MusicMan's Avatar
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    $24.66 Amazon prime Lyman 50th Edition Reloading Handbook Softcover, Black
    https://www.amazon.com/Lyman-50th-Re...s%2C288&sr=8-2

    $58.75 Lyman Shotshell Handbook 5Th Edition
    https://www.amazon.com/Lyman-Shotshe...s%2C282&sr=8-5
    Last edited by MusicMan; 05-12-2021 at 10:33 PM.

  10. #10
    Thanks Longbow. I have cut my hulls to inspect and test wad fit. I get confused when I hear use recipes for the same volume hulls. How do I know? I suppose I take some load data and give a load a try? If it doesn't fill up the hull, unload and try another recipe, or add a filler card? Once I have legit load data that fits in a hull I'm where I want to be?

    I only have straight walled hulls and tapered wads at the moment. I have data for these components, but after watching a video on wads and how not to get too worked up about them as long as the diameter fills out your hull I am also confused here. Is it a heavy load that allows for the lost efficiency of the loose wad? Am I just over thinking it all, and its time to load up some hulls and get a feel?

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by MusicMan View Post
    $24.66 Amazon prime Lyman 50th Edition Reloading Handbook Softcover, Black
    https://www.amazon.com/Lyman-50th-Re...s%2C288&sr=8-2

    $58.75 Lyman Shotshell Handbook 5Th Edition
    https://www.amazon.com/Lyman-Shotshe...s%2C282&sr=8-5
    I appreciate the attempt. I am Canadian. The first link is actually in stock, but express shipping is May 28, and my supplier expects his order immediately. The second link, product isn't available to me. I am trying here fellas. I swear, I've checked all local stores (within 200km) and scoured the net. Ebay is available, but over $85, so also worth the wait.

  12. #12
    USMC 77, USRA 79


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    there many available in PDF format for free..
    Any technology not understood, can seem like Magic!!!

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  13. #13
    Boolit Grand Master

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    No, I wouldn't try a recipe to see if it fits.

    Use the info from Dave In Arizona and other sources that have been posted to compare hull volumes and usage. Like I said, Cheddite show up in several BPI Load of the Week archive listing so you have some info for Cheddite hulls. You can use that load data and substitute equal weight of shot with slug of same weight. That won't be a high performance slug load but it will work and be safe.

    To be honest, I interchange recipes for straight walled hulls with any similar straight walled hull and adjust wad column to suit the crimp height. If both hulls have flat bottoms and straight walls I have to think combustion will be the same. I use same load data for Federal Field hulls and Fiocchi with no issues... just adjust the wad column to suit crimp height.

    In fact my original slug data for 0.735" RB was based on Precision Rifle's Piledriver slug load which stated "Any straight walled hull and primer of your choice." That seemed a bit vague for a load generating 12,500 PSI to me! However, it was a published pressure tested recipe and I was using a 585 gr. ball versus their 610 gr. slug. So, I used Winchester 209 primers (known to be mild) in Fiocchi hulls and started at the lowest listing Precision rifle had for powder charge. I never made it to the max. powder charge because recoil was rather stout! No problems and no sticky extraction so all good.

    Point being is they didn't differentiate between straight walled hulls.

    Having said that it is best to use published pressure tested data whenever possible and make minimal substitutions (like similar hulls or wad column adjustment) if you can't get exact components.

    I guess another warning I should make is to be sure of your primer. 209 primers are not all the same! Here is a link to Tom Armbrust's primer comparison testing:

    http://www.armbrust.acf2.org/primersubs.htm

    You will see that primer changes can affect pressure by up to 3000 PSI so significant! A recipe listed at max pressure with a primer substitution could push that to 3000 PSI over max. pressure.

    Note that crimp can also affect pressure quite significantly.

    I will say that if and when you get a manual look for one that has several different powder charges for each set of components. Lyman does not do that. I have 3 editions of the Lyman Shotshell Reloading Handbooks, all the powder manufacturer's handbooks (usually free), BPI's Slug Reloading Handbook, BPI's Buckshot Reloading Handbook, downloaded articles from on-line magazines and sources, and Reloading for Shotgunners which I will recommend as it lists multiple powder charges with pressures for each set of components. If in doubt use a low pressure listing to try things out. If you get sticky extraction before reaching listed max. then stop there! Sticky extraction is a sure sign you are over pressure.

    I'll take a look tomorrow to see what listings I have for Cheddite hulls. If they match your other components then I'll scan and post.

    You should look through the BPI Load of the Week archives to see what you can find there. You will have to open each listing to see what hull they used but I looked and there are several listings with Cheddite hulls.

    Longbow

  14. #14
    Thank you, sir. That one did it for me. I know people are loading the exact components I have, but I just don't know enough to confidently cross over to my hulls.

    I have cheddite data for all my powders. I've sourced and saved a lot of data. I want the manuals for the reloading knowledge more than the specific data. I've watched a ton of vids, but as I said, I don't have a good enough grasp to KNOW that I am safe using cheddite data for my hulls, just a forum post. I'll check out the info guys are sharing on hull volumes and use, but for now I'll keep gathering data and info until I am more clear on the variances.

    You listed the 3 books I plan to get. BPI's Buckshot and Slug manuals and Lyman. When they come in I'm going to get some hulls and corresponding wads for the loads I want, I'm just waiting for the books to save shipping costs. I was excited to jump in, but it will be a more comfortable starting point for me to start with full data for the hull and wads I order without crossing over data out of the gate. When I have some experience to work from I can play around with the hulls I have lying around.

    I appreciate you taking the time to write out so much. It really cleared up my position. There's enough to learn without starting out fiddling about. I need to match the components to my data, not try to make loads out of what I have scrounged up.

    My supplier has new Federal, Fiocci, and Cheddite hulls. Any reason one would suggest to pick one over the other?
    Last edited by castinboolits; 05-13-2021 at 12:54 AM.

  15. #15
    Boolit Master

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    I usually buy Fiochi hulls from Ballistic Products. They are straight walled & they have tons of data. A bonus is that you buy them primed & there is no hazmat fee. I believe Cheddite & Rio hulls would work just as well but I try to limit the number of brands of hulls on my bench.

    Bob
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  16. #16
    Boolit Buddy MusicMan's Avatar
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    no hazmat fee to lower 48 but Alaska and Hawaii have to pay it!

  17. #17
    I completely agree Bob. That's why I'm asking. I'd like to buy a bunch of one type and stick with it. I was recommended Fiocchi or Cheddite for availability, but haven't found a reason to pick one over the other.

    There are no direct hazmat charges in Canada. We have to use a specific carrier, but it often ends up cheaper than regular post. Go figure, huh. Faster, specialized service for less.

  18. #18
    Boolit Mold






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    Fiocchi in my opinion are of higher quality manufacturing and materials and a great choice for new primed hulls. They are my personal pick and preference but I also have other primed hulls (Rio,Cheddite...)to build with as necessary. They have been shipping with magnum primers so another thing to take into consideration when developing your stack.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master

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    Fiochi primers are larger than cheddite and the Rem primers you mentioned and they will sometimes fall out of the hull with wad pressure. Hulls are the least expensive component of reloading as they can be used over and over. You never mentioned what you were seeking to load for, trap loads, buckshot, slugs, etc. but Green dot is a good powder for lots of loads.
    "My main ambition in life is to be on the devil's most wanted list."
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  20. #20
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Well, I don't really have anything to add after looking through my manuals and data.

    My slug listings do not include your hull or primer selection and I can't address your original question in that I do not have a favourite load or even load data for those exact components.

    I do not see any buckshot or slug specific load data for Red Dot but you will find a ton of birdshot data for Red Dot so you can substitute equal weight slug for birdshot there. I do have some slug data for Universal and Green Dot. Again there will likely be a bunch of birdshot data for both and you can sub equal weight slug.

    Slugs R Us lists one Green Dot recipe for Cheddite and Green Dot for reduced velocity load. Oddly they do not specify a primer. Their slug is about 1 1/8 oz. you didn't say whether your Lee slug is 1 oz. or 7/8 oz. If your Lee slugs are 1 oz. they should work fine in that load... you just may have to adjust wad column using your wads and nitro card wads or other fillers to achieve proper crimp height.

    The links Scott posted to Aliant and Hodgdon should have a ton of birdshot load data you can use. If in doubt use a lower pressure load.

    Hodgdon shows one recipe for 1 1/8 oz. shot using Federal High Power hull, Federal 209A primer and Universal powder. That should work for 1 oz. slug. If anything pressure should be low using the lighter payload slug.

    From what I have read so far:

    - Universal hulls = Win AA
    - Top Gun = Federal High Power
    - Clever T1 = Cheddite

    Another word of warning, your Federal 209A primers are "hot" but the Remington should be mild. Not sure about the Cheddite CX2000 primers.

    That's all I've got.

    Longbow

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check