Forget carbides and all that crap and just use good quality high speed steel.
M34 or colbalt comes to mind.
The cheap m2 stuff is passable if anything.
Get some good tool holders and a fine grinding wheel and have at it.
1/4" tool steel is all you should need for 90% of all the work you will ever do.
What you lack in linear feet per minute you can make up in depth of cut.
You can thank the old machinists later.
A few tool holders and you have about any thing you can imagine.
You will find machine tools ARE a real addiction. Buy a good lathe for around $1K and end up spending $6K of good tooling and accessories! Same with a mill. I have 5X the cost of my mill tied up in accessories, collets, indexers, etc.
I started out with an old Atlas metal lathe 40 years ago. A metal lathe CAN make most of it's own parts! Now I have 6 metal lathes and 3 milling machines! You can even do simple milling operations on a lathe with the correct adapter. I did it for years until I bought my 1st mill.
Choose wisely! Buy a bigger machine than you think you want/need at the current time, if you can afford it. You will never be sorry. I have never heard of any good machinist downsizing tools!!!!!!!!
banger
Don't know about the others, but LMS actually goes to the factory where the mini-lathes and such are made, and works on getting the quality they want built into their machines. I've read some of the visit reports they posted after those trips. Harbor Freight doesn't buy the lowest quality machines, but they also don't buy the best quality machines, either. The very cheapest wind up on Ebay & Amazon as no-name lathes. I find it best to think of the HF lathes as a lathe kit. All the pieces are there, though there may be some problems with fit or finish. Though I must say, my 93212 model 7x10, bought in 2008, was quite useable out of the box. All the problems I had with it turned out to be me. I have to make very few modifications to get it to do what I want it to do, that it is capable of doing. 7" maximum swing, 10" useable bed length. They'll never be a Hardinge, or even a Logan or Atlas. Still quite usable in careful hands.Originally Posted by uscra112
Inhales sharply about the MicroMark. I just added myself to their "notify me" just for giggles. I've been collecting stuff to help me modify my HF with 3/8-20 LH compound and cross-slide leadscrews, maybe proper inch dials. For several years.It works well enough, and I've got several other lathes to play with, now, too, so it might never happen. Finding a new US made lathe under about $10K is flatly impossible. A grand for something decent isn't bad. And there are advantages to a lathe you can pick up and move by yourself. My dream lathe is a Monarch 10EE. I'd settle for a Clausing Colchester 13" lathe. Neither of them come close to $1000, so I'll be dreaming for a long time.
Bill
I've known more than a couple who retired and downsized. And then regretted it. At least some of those have settled for a 7x mini-lathe as a replacement for the ones they downsized. Like anything else, they will not be perfect for everyone. There are people who legitimately need a 16" lathe with a 20' bed, after all. I'd LIKE one myself, after all. But I've got no space for such a thing, either. I've been collecting books on workshops, and workshop tips for several decades, too. One, Shop Savvy, by Roy Moungovan, had a section on the lathe he bought.
He mentioned that he'd thought he might make steam engines, and that sort of thing when he got his lathe, but that never happened. What did happen was that he used it to make and modify parts for many other sorts of projects. Custom screws, washer, and odd fittings for things he needed. He said despite not doing the engines and such, he found he used the lathe nearly every day for one project and another.
https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/shop-s...dition=4621376
There are also folks who make the lathe itself the hobby. Making tooling and modifications to the lathe. I may just have a dab of that myself.
Bill
One of the advantages of the 7x mini-lathes is that a lot of clever people who have run into limitations of the mini-lathe, or a shop with only a mini-lathe, have come up with ways to extend that usefulness, and overcome some of those limitations. On the mini-lathe group I own, there is a discussion on how to make a pinion gear on a mini-lathe. Modern machine shops rarely make their own gears, these days. They usually buy them from a company that specializes in gears, and therefore has the special machines and/or CNC machines that make gear-making a trivial exercise. It's usually amateurs' and hobbyists that make their own gears. There's been a small discussion on how to make a pinion gear to repair a member's Craftsman router, and a bunch of good info has come out on that project. One of the other members has designed a spindle clamp to enable indexing in the mini-lathe spindle. That would allow the use to use the lathe as a shaper and to cut teeth in a gear on the mini-lathe. Anyone who plays with the 7x mini-lathes knows the name Ralph Patterson. That clamp he designed is his response to this particular problem, and the fact that most of the ways to lock the spindle also block the through hole in the spindle. This fixes that problem. Also, Ralph is known because he's designed and published quite a number of modifications and add-ons for the 7x Mini-lathes. And most of the rest of them are available in the group files sections with his explicit permission. Several styles of hand crank, for example, that help people who need to thread something without crashing the lathe. Lots of good stuff, and much of it was lost when the Tools and Mods website disappeared last year. Membership is free, access to the files and photos is free. This is a site to help people learn to use their mini-lathe better, and as long as I can, it will remain free to use.
And even if you don't have a 7x mini-lathe, you may be able to adapt the info to whatever you do have. Discussion is not limited to the 7x lathes, either. If you have an interest, check it out.
Bill
https://groups.io/g/Mini-Lathes/topi...0,2,0,82853340
When GONRA sees "Sherline" think "No Lead Screw". VEEEERY BAD NEWS for all those $$$$.
At least HF & others mentioned above HAVE !@#$% LEAD SCREWS and CHANGE GEARS!
>>> ANY REAL METAL LATHE SHOULD BE "SCREW CUTTING". <<<
Wot do ya'll think? ???
Full Disclosure: Got all my best BASIC shop stuff in 1960's.
Factory Brand New: SB 10K Lathe with taper, 6 position bed turret.
ALORIS QC tooling, etc. etc.
Used: Clausing Vertical Mill #2 Morse TAPER, dividing head, etc
New: Tool Grinding Stuff: Factory new 1960's Cutter Master ..
Heat Treat: gas (harden) electric (temper)
I won't argue with you on that, but I'll add that the lathe itself should also be made of cast iron. Which means the 7x lathes are a good start. Not the be-all or end-all, just a good start. I have 3 reasonably functional lathes, now. 7x10 HF, Atlas TH42, and Smithy CB-1220XL. There is also a SB Heavy 10L that is very much a restoration project. I won't call it a real lathe just yet, but it could be. Spindle through holes: 13/16th reamed from 19mm), 3/4", 1.03", and 1.375 for the once and future lathe. The first three are change gear lathes. The last is a single-tumbler quick-change gear box. I've also got an Atlas MF horizontal mill, an HF mini-mill, and a monster of a 900lb cast iron drill press that I wouldn't hesitate to do light milling on, plus the Smithy is a 3-in-1 machine, with a vertical mill head. Also a Lewis Shaper.
Remember, I said it was an addiction.
Hi! My name is Bill, and I'm a Toolohaulic!
I didn't get my first lathe until 2008, after a hs machine shop class in 1973. In the past 20 years, I think I've spend more on machine tools than guns, but not a lot on either. One of these days, I may be a good enough machinist to start building my own.
I make a lot of custom carbide insert holders and rigs/jigs. ( I run across every design and shape of TIN coated insert in the books at local scrap yards for $5.00 a pound....just like new......all hardly ever used because the aircraft industry has codes they must adhere to). I have a vacuum furnace for complete heat-treating operations.I've known more than a couple who retired and downsized. And then regretted it. At least some of those have settled for a 7x mini-lathe as a replacement for the ones they downsized. Like anything else, they will not be perfect for everyone. There are people who legitimately need a 16" lathe with a 20' bed, after all. I'd LIKE one myself, after all. But I've got no space for such a thing, either. I've been collecting books on workshops, and workshop tips for several decades, too. One, Shop Savvy, by Roy Moungovan, had a section on the lathe he bought.
He mentioned that he'd thought he might make steam engines, and that sort of thing when he got his lathe, but that never happened. What did happen was that he used it to make and modify parts for many other sorts of projects. Custom screws, washer, and odd fittings for things he needed. He said despite not doing the engines and such, he found he used the lathe nearly every day for one project and another.
https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/shop-s...dition=4621376
There are also folks who make the lathe itself the hobby. Making tooling and modifications to the lathe. I may just have a dab of that myself.
Bill
You really need a mill to go with the lathe!!!! I have never made a single gun-related part on my many metalworking machines. They keep too busy with tons of other projects and items!! Once you own a lathe (and mill), the world opens up to do and build just about anything for everything.
Change gears???????????????? That is last century! I have all quick-change gear boxes on mine and it is a dream to be able to switch feeds and speeds and thread with just the flip of 2 levers! Spend the extra $$$ and get a quick-change lathe.
Lathe, shaper, and mill. Surface grinder is my next machine wanna. Shapers are slow, but you can get a surface finish as good as a grinder, and they use cheap single-point cutters similar to those in a lathe, and shapers can do things mills cannot, like internal splines. With those cheap cutters, unlike broaches, which are anything but cheap for all but the simplest shapes. Though they're slow. And mentioning how slow they are is not a mistake. It's just a fact. Old saying about shapers was "You can make anything on a shaper except money."
I have a half-pound or so of carbide cutters I scrounged at my former job. It was an industrial laundry, and we did shop aprons and towels for machine shops, among other things. I've also got a half-dozen or more Starrett & other brands of 6" rules that folks left in their pockets when they sent uniforms and shop aprons, and even shop towels in for cleaning. Some of the stuff is chipped, some not. Haven't made any of my own cutters except hand-ground lathe tools yet, but that will be coming along.
Change gears have their advantages. If you have a QCGB that doesn't have a thread you need, it's not really easy to fix that. On a change gear lathe, you just need some more change gears. I've 3D printed a 127-tooth gear for my HF 7x10 so I can do metric threading on it with zero error. I kinda want a much faster printer before I do such gears for the larger lathes. The 127-tooth gear for my Atlas TH42 is a bit over 9" in diameter, and will take more than 24 hours to print on the printer I have. I did find a 3" tailstock for a dividing head or rotary table on Ebay for about $25 a few weeks ago. I can make a spacer block for the 3" rotary table, or a set of dividing centers. I've got blueprints for a set of those that were designed for the Lewis Shaper. But a bit more tooling bought or made would let me cut all the gearing I need for the 4 lathes I'll have running, one of these days. I also have plans for QCGB's for the Atlas & HF lathes. An Atlas QCGB is currently not available by itself on Ebay, though they do come up once in a while. An Atlas 10" lathe with the QCGB is more than double the cost of one without. If I were a professional machinist, working in a professional shop, I might be able to justify the expense. I'm not. I can't.
Bill
If I need an "Odd" thread, I just calculate the needed teeth an cut it on my CNC mill gear cutter. Have done that for several needs. For light and occasional use, a good aircraft grade of aluminum barstock works great and will last for years!
Gold (and tools) are where you find them! I picked up a South Bend tool room grade QCGB 220V 3 phase lathe several years ago for $600 (complete with 4" and 6" 3 jaw chucks, collet set with collet chuck, follow rest, and steady rest, and all the HSS speed tool I would ever want (I only use carbide now) Dirty and filthy, it took a lot of cleaning and scrubbing to get it back into spec but the grease saved everything from rust! But after a good clean and a coat of machinery gray enamel, it looks like new and runs the same.
Added a 220 1p to 220 3p A/B VFD to it and I am tool hog heaven!
Ya' just gotta keep your ear to the ground!!!!!! This acquisition was B4 Craig's list or modern ebay.
I've been in something of a machinery desert for the past 25 years. Unless you're looking for large lathe and mills suitable for oilfield piping. I spent from the summer 1973 until the fall of 2008 looking for a lathe I could afford. Woke up one morning from a terrible dream, and went to Harbor Freight, and bought my little 7x10. Had a couple of near misses in the years before I bought the HF lathe. I was TDY to Germany from Turkey in 1984 for a surgery, and found a nice little lathe in one of the German department stores in Wiesbaden, where the major medical center was at the time. It would have been about $350, US, or 1500DM. Unfortunately the largest check I could cash was $25 per day. I was there for 3 days. Wound up back there again in late 1991, and it was still about 1500DM, but the exchange rate was a lot worse, 1.30DM/$, where it had been 3.5DM/$ in 1984. For the next 4 years, I'd wander through the store and drool over the lathe, but couldn't afford it. My son was born in February 1992, and my daughter in February 1994. SWMBO said NO! Something about diapers and such. Got back to the states in 1996, and put hobbies behind me. (I thought.) Finished my last tour in the USAF, and retired, and went back to school to be a teacher. Ten years, and an unexpected illness crashed that. Got involved in the local hobby machinist groups, and online at Yahoo. That kept me as sane as I've ever been while dealing with my illnesses. Obstructive sleep apnea and a worn out hip joint. Bought the HF lathe while trying to figure out what to do next, and I spent another 4 years trying to rescue the teaching career, but it was wasted time. Had lots of troubles with the lathe, and eventually, SWMBO told me I should take another class. So I did. Started in early 2015, and late that year I found a Atlas TH42 on Craigslist, for money I could afford. No QCGB, though.
I'm surprised that no one has mentioned Myford Lathes. They are about as good a small lathe as you can get. Made in the UK.
Plenty here in the US and most are used by the Live Steam Loco builders. http://www.myford-lathes.com/
Randy
"It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
www.buchananprecisionmachine.com
Randy, he said he was looking for the least expensive lathe. Myford lathes are really nice lathes, but they are not by any stretch of the imagination "least expensive" even used. Neither are the EMCO Maximats. They're another fine import lathe. I think they were what was in the department store in Wiesbaden all the times I looked there. Again, not the least expensive lathes. They were made in Austria at one time, and I spent much time drooling over them, too.
AFAIK, there is not one lathe made in the US that is comparable to the HF 7x10 mini-lathes. The last time I found anything even close was probably 7 or 8 years ago, and they were right at $10K. Every now and then, I look at what it costs to get a Monarch 10EE lathe. Last quote was about a year ago, and that was $102K. Truly, they are not really comparable to the 7x lathes. Nor to the Atlas and 9" & 10" South Bend lathes from Indiana. Much heavier, considerably better precision. I've discussed them with a guy who has one built in 1917. Awesome machines, then and now. I look to torture myself, as if I'd gone for machinist training when I retired, I'd probably have my own real machine shop by now. I spent easily $100K on becoming a teacher, and every dime of that wasted.
The current South Bend name brand 10" lathe sold by Grizzly is made in Taiwan, IIRC, and it's list price was $10K at the beginning of this year. They've recently been on sale for $7500. Right now, they're listing at $8999.00, +$199 for shipping. They weigh 645lbs, which is about 350-400lbs lighter than the vintage 1941 Heavy 10L I have sitting here is supposed to be. It's listed as 1067lbs. Probably be a really nice lathe even so, but.
There are several US-made lathes between $20K and $120K, but I can't afford any of them.
Oh! I found a new Myford Super 7 Connoisseur lathe for only £11,425+VAT. I think it's closing on $2/£, so...
https://www.myford.co.uk/acatalog/NE...ED-TO-DRO.html Spiffy lathe, but not what I'd call "least expensive" either. Sorry, I'm back to the 7x10 for least expensive. Particularly for someone who doesn't know if he'll make a whole lot of use of it. They are a great small hobby lathe.
I have the space for them, but also wanted machines that could be moved by myself alone. So, I have a Myford Super 7B long bed, on factory stand and a Clausing 8530 vertical mill, along with a WWII Walker Turner drill press and assorted other small tools. The Myford is a work of art, but the original company closed shop 10 years ago, so new support is not really available. The successor company is an importer of cheap junk and I do not consider them really to have carried on with the Myford brand. I haunt ebay.co.uk for parts and accessories; the US market for Myford stuff is nearly dead.
For a low end machine that will have ongoing support, I don't think you can do better than Little Machine Shop. I have none of their machines, but a good bit of their tooling and it's clear that they like to ship good quality, no matter from whence it's sourced. They answer the phone and will help with any issues. All that, along with the initial higher quality and inspection rigor of a new machine is worth much more than the price difference with HF.
The reason I suggest using the primer pocket is the rim is out in the open and after facing the corner can be broken easily with fine file while set up.
GONRA agrees with bangerjim.
Quick Change Gear Box is a helleva lot better that change gears!
BUT decades ago was able to cut 30 threads / inch with my boyhood Sears 6"x12"
(I guess) lathe using the original die cast zamak change gears.
I got a big old South Bend, I got it from a school that got 3 of them on govt. surplus deal. They couldn’t use them because they couldn’t be brought under safety codes. I gathered up all kinds of tooling, “surplus” when mines & mills around here were going under.
I have been looking for a deal on a good small lathe, bench top. They are hard to find used, they are snapped up quick. The low end Chinese stuff is a waste of money. You fool yourself if you think you are going to turn any precision parts on them. Not even brass or alumilum.
Yes, if you can afford the extra price. If you can, you should, too. I bought the absolutely cheapest small lathe I could get that came close to what I thought I needed simply because I absolutely could not afford to spend any more at that time. I had just lost my job under circumstances that led me to feel that I might never be able to get another. Wasn't true, but I didn't know it at the time. It did take several years learn that it wasn't true, too.
All my machines are sized so that I can move them myself. I do have an adult son who lives with us who can help, but currently he's got no medical insurance, and cannot afford to get hurt. I do have a 1-ton engine hoist, a good stout prybar, and several of the little wooden furniture carts from HF, and a couple of kinds of hand truck. Also a bad back, two artificial hips, and bad knees. So I have to be careful myself, too.
Bill
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| BP | Bronze Point | IMR | Improved Military Rifle | PTD | Pointed |
| BR | Bench Rest | M | Magnum | RN | Round Nose |
| BT | Boat Tail | PL | Power-Lokt | SP | Soft Point |
| C | Compressed Charge | PR | Primer | SPCL | Soft Point "Core-Lokt" |
| HP | Hollow Point | PSPCL | Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" | C.O.L. | Cartridge Overall Length |
| PSP | Pointed Soft Point | Spz | Spitzer Point | SBT | Spitzer Boat Tail |
| LRN | Lead Round Nose | LWC | Lead Wad Cutter | LSWC | Lead Semi Wad Cutter |
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