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Thread: Boolit sized, lubed/coated etc properly- why am I still getting leading?

  1. #21
    Boolit Buddy
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    For loads have been using Unique and more recently IMR4227 from 20-22grains.

    Leading seems worse about 6-8" from muzzle.

  2. #22
    Boolit Master mehavey's Avatar
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    mattri: Are you doing the casting and PC, or someone else ?
    (and if you, what is your PC process/temp, etc?)

  3. #23
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    I don't know if burn rate is part of the problem, Unique is 32 and 4227 is 65 on the burn rate chart, Hodgdon data suggests 4895 which is 94 which is much slower, I get my best out of 308 with H4895.

    By comparison H110 is 63 and Lil Gun 62, AA#9 is 57 and 2400 is 54. These 4 I think are most associated with large bore straight wall heavy boolit pistol calibers, and the 38-55, just looking at the round, is a straight walled cartridge that makes me think it might respond well to any of these slower pistol powders. 4227 at 65 is right there with the infamous four, and it has been noted that 4227 can be temperature sensitive, so there is that.

    If there is any logic to the burn rate in 38-55, and I had to strike out blindly I'd probably pick 2400, find some load data for it and see where that got me.
    Got a .22 .30 .32 .357 .38 .40 .41 .44 .45 .480 or .500 S&W cylinder that needs throats honed? 9mm, 10mm/40S&W, 45 ACP pistol barrel that won't "plunk" your handloads? Click this link to send me a PM->>> http://castboolits.gunloads.com/priv...=newpm&u=29606 Also on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Cylinderhone-756429174391912/

  4. #24
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    So far have been using commercial cast boolits. No reason to believe the BHN is off, the HI-Tek seems in tact and boolits measure appropriate diameter.

  5. #25
    Boolit Master mehavey's Avatar
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    There is no reason that a properly PC'd / 0.380" / 1300-1500fps bullet should even think about leading -- no matter how soft
    In fact, soft is good. (Again see bottom of Post #20)

    I'm thinking PC-QC* is at the root of your problem.




    * (Honest, I don't make these catchy phrases up. )

  6. #26
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    That certainly could be part of the issue but other boolits leaded badly too, not just these.

  7. #27
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    Ha! Commercial cast, unless you specifically order a softer alloy, is usually BHN22 and that hard crayon lube = guaranteed leading regardless of diameter or fitment.
    Got a .22 .30 .32 .357 .38 .40 .41 .44 .45 .480 or .500 S&W cylinder that needs throats honed? 9mm, 10mm/40S&W, 45 ACP pistol barrel that won't "plunk" your handloads? Click this link to send me a PM->>> http://castboolits.gunloads.com/priv...=newpm&u=29606 Also on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Cylinderhone-756429174391912/

  8. #28
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    Larry Gibson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattri View Post
    ...........Leading seems worse about 6-8" from muzzle.
    That is a classic indicator the lube is failing or there's not enough of it.

    What lube?
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  9. #29
    Boolit Master

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    Are you using actual measured .380 bullets or are you trying to use .380 bullets? .380 bullets are .355 dia.

  10. #30
    Boolit Buddy
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    Various, including Hi-Tek coating.

  11. #31
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by jim147 View Post
    What groove, twist was it rebored to?
    Quote Originally Posted by sigep1764 View Post
    Where are you located? A member here might be close and might be inclined to help in person.
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Gibson View Post
    Lubed with what?
    Quote Originally Posted by Rizzo View Post
    I've gotta ask since you did not specify your .377 slugging.
    Was that groove diameter or bore diameter?
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Gibson View Post
    That is a classic indicator the lube is failing or there's not enough of it.

    What lube?
    Quote Originally Posted by jimb16 View Post
    Are you using actual measured .380 bullets or are you trying to use .380 bullets? .380 bullets are .355 dia.
    OP,
    Folks here are trying to help you but you seem to be ignoring their questions.
    Just sayin'.
    1A - 2A = -1A

  12. #32
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    This is probably a bad gun. It should be sold or thrown away as there is no solution for this problem. You you could just let it lead and fire a Jacketed bullet thru it about every 5 shots that would clean it out for sure..

    In fact since nobody said anything about breaking that barrel in, maybe fire a hundred or so j words thru it, clean all the copper fouling out of the barrel and try your boolits again.

    I have never seen a PC'd Boolit transfer Lead to the bore of any gun. It is a Polymer coating .002-.003 thick and there is no Lead contact with the bore. Therefore it can't lead the bore.

    Kind of wonder what's going on here? Unsolvable problems always seem to be knowledge related, and solved by increasing the understanding of the subject. Not some Miracle Fix.

    Randy
    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
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  13. #33
    Boolit Buddy
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    To catch up-

    Rebore is a 3 groove 1:16, using 245-265gr boolits.

    I am in Iowa.

    Multiple commercially cast/lubed boolits have been shot through this rifle, all with the same results, I do not know the exact lube composition of each. As noted coated boolits lead just as badly.

    Barrel was slugged in the standard way, pure lead lubed and driven through barrel then mic'd.

    As noted boolits used so far have been .379-.381, no 357 boolits were harmed in the making of this post

    No copper has been down this bore, intention all along was to use cast boolits.

    Originally I had planned to order a mold from Tom but wanted to send a little lead down range and experiment with a few different boolits to see how they fed, whether it seemed to like a particular weight etc- which is why I ended up with a selection of various "store bought" boolits. Was planning to use the info from these loadings to help select the mold I would order but would like to sort the leading out before I pull the trigger on a mold.

    Not saying this couldn't be the first but have never heard of anyone having trouble with a JES rebore before, everyone seems to love them.

  14. #34
    Boolit Master
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    Do you suppose that a pound cast of the neck and throat area would give you a better idea of the size of the bullet needed to correctly fit this firearm? If the neck area is too large, the ignition will blow the lube off the bullet before it seals the bore and this could be the problem with leading the last part of the barrel. Also with powder coated bullets, the hot gas may be cutting the coating and not protecting the sides of the bullet from contacting the barrel. What does the muzzle look like after firing PC bullets. Obviously, you more than likely have a silver star with lubed bullets. Have you checked to determine the cartridge OAL with the largest bullet you can cast? If the free bore is a little too long or your bullet is a little small or short, that might also be part of your problem. There is a very old and proven method used to verify that is not the problem.

    If a tight patch does not pass smoothly down the bore, you might consider a bit of lapping might improve things.

  15. #35
    Boolit Buddy
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    Possible, but maybe not likely. An oversized boolit or more to the point a case with the "long" brass will not chamber so fit doesn't seem to be the main issue.
    JES recommends short brass and say they cut to .376-.377 which seems to match actual field measurements.

    Unfortunately it looks as though boolits sized correctly and with various types of lube/coating just leave a nasty amount of lead in the barrel.

  16. #36
    Boolit Master

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    Are the lead streaks always in the same place?
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  17. #37
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    Try a different powder.
    I've got a fever and the only prescription is more cowbell

    "Hell is other people"
    Jean-Paul Sartre

  18. #38
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    IF a rough bore is suspected, the $46 Teslong bore scope will tell the story. Compatible with any laptop and most phones (but not an iPhone). Just do a search for Teslong and the Bezos outfit has them on their site.
    “Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference in the world. But, the Marines don't have that problem.” Ronald Reagan


  19. #39
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    It sounds like your still dealing with some unknowns (exact chamber dimensions, etc)... treat this like a science experiment and identify as many specifics as you can.
    Shooting a box of J’d boolets will not ruin a gun you want to dedicate to cast... it will just speed up the process of smoothing out any microscopic burrs left in the barrel. Fire a box, swabbing the barrel really good every 3 rounds, letting the barrel cool between shot group.

    Then, start collecting your data on a spreadsheet. (#1 to 3 are header/benchmark data and set the stage for 4 to 7, which is the test data)
    1. Slugged bore
    2. Chamber cast
    3. Barrel/bore surface photos
    4. Bullets of known alloy composition, hardness, and exact diameter
    5. Lubes and PC of known mixture/hardness
    6. Various powders and charge weights
    7. Photos of the chamber and barrel and leading at: clean; 5 shots; 10 shots; 25 shots; 50 shots...

    It is critical you only change one thing at a time so you can pinpoint the culprit. If you change lube and powder charge and a change occurs... what caused it - the new powder or the new lube mix?

    Once you have a few hundred rounds through the barrel you can start to make decisions based on data and not guesses.
    73’s DE
    Matthew

    “Those who give up essential liberties for temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” – Benjamin Franklin

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattri View Post
    ........Multiple commercially cast/lubed boolits have been shot through this rifle, all with the same results, I do not know the exact lube composition of each. As noted coated boolits lead just as badly. .
    The leading with the commercial lubed bullets you are experiencing is typical. The hard wax used is not the best to prevent leading. If you have or can get some Lee's liquid alox then lightly coat the commercial cast bullets as per Lee's instructions letting dry thoroughly before loading. Or if you have some softer traditional alox based lube remove the hard wax lube from, say, 10 bullets then hand smear the lube into the grooves, load and shoot them. If no leading the there's nothing wrong with the rifle, barrel and Jes's usual excellent work. The solution, which it most often is, ito not getting leading s simply the to use a proper lube.

    As to the PC'd bullets leading or leaving a PC fouling in my experience with such is some guns just foul with it and some don't. In my tests of the same bullet/load in multiple guns some foul, some don't. Its one of the reasons I haven't gone to the dark side....
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check