Schuetzen Question

[David todd]

A lot of different bore and groove diameters among 8.15x46R barrels. There doesn't seem to really be a standard size.

Oh, I missed an important part that was mentioned earlier by someone else- mine is stamped 8.15X46NORM
David

[sharps4590]

A lot of different bore and groove diameters among 8.15x46R barrels. There doesn't seem to really be a standard size.

There wasn't until after WWI. Even then I'm not sure all makers abided by "NORM".

[marlinman93]

There wasn't until after WWI. Even then I'm not sure all makers abided by "NORM".

Yes, even "NORM" after the caliber didn't really standardize from what I've seen of various 8.15x46R bores. Maybe it established a "normal" chamber dimension, but bore and groove could certainly vary a fair amount.
But this isn't really specific to this caliber either. I see the same thing among 1800's American made rifles and barrels. Old single shots I have in .32-40 vary from as small as a .316" groove to as large as a .327" groove. The larger groove diameters have given me fits trying to shoot fixed ammo, and I finally gave up and simply shoot them as breech seaters, as that's the only way to shoot a bullet fitted to the groove, and still shoot them.
Same for my .38-55 rifles. They vary less, but smallest is a .378" groove, and largest is a .383" groove. The .383" is actually a Schoyen Ballard muzzle loading breech seater. So it was never built to shoot fixed, and is a false muzzle barrel designed to chamber a .38-55 case with charge, and muzzle load the bullet down against the case mouth.

[David todd]

JSnover,

You inspired me to make a similar breech seating tool. Even the little German guy carved on my Schuetzen's buttstock is celebrating!

I made something the same yesterday by pouring lead into one of my empty cases.
Seems to work great, a bullet extracted with a rod showed that it gets well engraved ! I cover the mouths of the charged cases with some crafters sheet beeswax before putting them in the box.
I was able to get some respectable 200 meter groups yesterday with the Trail Boss, and brushed every 5 rounds because I was worried a bit about wax build up , but the bore scope didn't show anything out of the norm.
David

[sharps4590]

Yes, even "NORM" after the caliber didn't really standardize from what I've seen of various 8.15x46R bores. Maybe it established a "normal" chamber dimension, but bore and groove could certainly vary a fair amount.
But this isn't really specific to this caliber either. I see the same thing among 1800's American made rifles and barrels. Old single shots I have in .32-40 vary from as small as a .316" groove to as large as a .327" groove. The larger groove diameters have given me fits trying to shoot fixed ammo, and I finally gave up and simply shoot them as breech seaters, as that's the only way to shoot a bullet fitted to the groove, and still shoot them.
Same for my .38-55 rifles. They vary less, but smallest is a .378" groove, and largest is a .383" groove. The .383" is actually a Schoyen Ballard muzzle loading breech seater. So it was never built to shoot fixed, and is a false muzzle barrel designed to chamber a .38-55 case with charge, and muzzle load the bullet down against the case mouth.

Same here mm. One better make a chamber cast and slug the bore on any of the old stuff. I have 3 in my accumulation that were assuredly not what they were advertised as. I really didn't mind and rather enjoyed the hunt for what it was and the process of making them shoot. Never did identify two of the cartridges.

[marlinman93]

Same here mm. One better make a chamber cast and slug the bore on any of the old stuff. I have 3 in my accumulation that were assuredly not what they were advertised as. I really didn't mind and rather enjoyed the hunt for what it was and the process of making them shoot. Never did identify two of the cartridges.

And I've seen enough old rifles rechambered to another cartridge to not take any for granted, regardless of how they're marked. A chamber cast is a must do thing for any new to me old gun.

[sharps4590]

And I've seen enough old rifles rechambered to another cartridge to not take any for granted, regardless of how they're marked. A chamber cast is a must do thing for any new to me old gun.

Yes sir. I have an unmarked drilling that has been re-chamered to probably a one off, made from 30-40 Krag cases. I can't complain...it is superbly accurate and mild mannered, once I worked up a load.

[marlinman93]

Yes sir. I have an unmarked drilling that has been re-chamered to probably a one off, made from 30-40 Krag cases. I can't complain...it is superbly accurate and mild mannered, once I worked up a load.

Prior to 1881 Marlin didn't even bother to mark the caliber on Ballard rifle barrels. So it's always been a crap shoot whenever I bought a 1875-1881 Ballard as to caliber for sure. I just got to the point that no matter what anyone told me I still did a chamber cast to confirm.
It's really a pretty quick process with an old soup can and a pan of boiling water to melt the Cerrosafe in. Takes longer to disassemble the gun and reassemble it.

[sharps4590]

I still say this site needs a like button...

[David todd]

Well, my home made breach seater seems to work okay with 7.5 grains of Red Dot and a 155 grain powder coated cast bullet!
This was at 300 meters today, the heavier strikes were from a 308.
about half of these were done offhand with the irons!
Happy camper here.....