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Thread: wrist fracture on an old mod 1894

  1. #1
    Boolit Master

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    wrist fracture on an old mod 1894

    My SIL has a 5 digit serial no. Win mod 1894 30/30 that seems to have been made in 1894-1895. It has a 24 or 26 in. octagon barrel, a not too bad bore, any overall looks pretty good for it's age...... except: it was broken a long time ago across the wrist right behind the receiver and has an old repair that looks kinda "brassy" in color. Is this gun safe to shoot with cast loads? I would assume that one should limit the number of jacketed bullets because of the old metal? Is this gun just a wall hanger? I kinda bet it hasn't been a wall hanger since it was broken. Book says this gun is worth 1100$ in 10% shape. Without the wound it's in MUCH better than 10% but I didn't know how the wound would affect it's value either. Anyone help answer either or both of these questions?

  2. #2
    Boolit Bub
    flyin brian's Avatar
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    Well since it's a 30 WCF it can't be any older than 1895, but it's actual DOM is likely to be a few years off what you found online. The Winchester dates were based on bad info from George Madis but since that's all that was available for many years, it ended up being accepted as true. More recently the ledgers from the polishing room at Winchester were found and those ledgers show the actual date the serial number was applied to the receiver. Those new dates are quite a few years off so I would recommend looking it up on the website for the Winchester collectors association which is www.winchester-collector.org/dates

    As for the broken wrist, you said "behind the receiver" so I'm assuming you mean the tang is broken? That was not uncommon to see a broken tang repaired by brazing and I would imagine it's safe to shoot as it is not anything related to chamber pressures or firing.

    I am curious what a restoration expert would do to repair a broken tang during a full restoration... Hopefully someone will answer that has experience with that.

    FB

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  3. #3
    Boolit Grand Master pietro's Avatar
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    .

    The only option for a broken tang in the far past, an expedient repair was to braze the crack to repair it - ergo, the brassy color.

    If you want it restored, the brazing would need to be ground down below the tang surface, then the divot built up via tig welding, metal working the weld & refinishing.

    I'm pretty sure that you're going to have to fahgettaboutit, regarding any case colors.

    The brazing repair is strong, and has lasted a long time, so I would presume it's safe to shoot - and certainly adds to the character of the rifle (maybe it was broken in a hand-to-hand fight after running out of ammo )

    .
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  4. #4
    Boolit Grand Master

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    But yes, it is safe to assume that the barrel is not overly hard and it would be best to limit shooting to cast. Good news is that in the 30-30 cast and condom boolits are about equal.
    Wayne the Shrink

    There is no 'right' that requires me to work for you or you to work for me!

  5. #5
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    Agreed--all good information. Doubtless a braze repair. Braze won't blue, so a restoration would require replacing the surface braze with weld. I agree that it's likely safe to shoot.

    DG

  6. #6
    Boolit Buddy
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    If the barrel is made of nickel steel I'd have no worries shooting mild cast loads

  7. #7
    Boolit Master

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    Thanks for all your replies. Yes it's the tang I guess the metal behind the receiver before the stock head. My son in law wants to purchase it from her but doesn't want it if it's "unshootable" no one wants to refurbish this gun. I told him I bet it's been shot ever since it was fixed but I wouldn't shoot factory loads in it. I just happen to know someone who cast's for the 30/30.... me!

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    tangs can be big welded back on, I had a savage visible loader that needed the same repair, and found an experienced gunsmith that said it was no problem to weld it back strong as new. I ended up trading the gun off to someone who really really wanted it before I could send it off to the smith. its just a matter of finding a real gunsmith that knows what they are doing.

  9. #9
    Boolit Grand Master pietro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by farmbif View Post

    its just a matter of finding a real gunsmith that knows what they are doing.

    Yep - Plenty of parts-changers out there calling themselves gunsmiths...
    Now I lay me down to sleep
    A gun beside me is what I keep
    If I awake, and you're inside
    The coroner's van is your next ride

  10. #10
    Boolit Master Drm50's Avatar
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    If a 1894 Win is in nice shape other than broken tang I wouldn’t be afraid of any standard factory loading.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master

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    it looks 125 years old but it seems solid

  12. #12
    Boolit Master

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    I finally looked up the date on the win collectors website 1895. Serial no 119xx

  13. #13
    Boolit Master

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    The 94 had to wait till 1895 for the nickel steel barrel to handle the pressure and velocity of the new smokeless powder 30-30 and 32 special. I have repaired more than a few broken tangs on 94s and 92s as well as a few others. You might want to check head space, I have seen at least one with way to much that was still being shot (Primer backs out). The 30-30 does not seem to have enough pressure to stretch the brass. Also look at the rifling at the muzzle, seems many have ware from cleaning rods. One of the trick to getting the old one to shoot good again was to cut an inch off the muzzle. Most likely there will be no problem with shooting the old rifle.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master

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    thanks John. I cleaned the barrel well and I did look at the muzzle, it seems to be in good shape. The rifling looks surprisingly good. I'm gonna try some .310 cast in it. It would be very satisfying to harvest a deer with it!

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check