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Thread: .662 Round Ball load

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy
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    .662 Round Ball load



    I bought a Citadel Warthog semi 12ga and Iím working up a few loads to test next weekend. Various Federal hulls, Fed 12S0 and Win 12SL wads. 

Cylinder choke is .720 on gun and my 12S0 with ball is .719, WAA12SL with paper patch is at .720

Powder will be ExtraLite or Reddot at ~17.5 to ~18.5 gr respectively (I also have 8lbs of Bullseye so will be hunting down loads for it with these 1oz balls)

Last week my first test (15 rounds) with 17.3gr of Xlite, 12S0 yielded about 6 or 7Ē spread at 50yards with 2 FTE. Not great ... but I was using home cut cardboard discs under the ball and one above ball for fold. Thinking of trying the 1/8Ē felt wad this time and roll crimp.

Anyone have some recommendations on some test loads, Filler to take up slight slack between ball and wad ... any other thoughts? Felt ok for under ball support? Appreciate the feedback for this longtime cartridge reloader. 

Oh, the balls are range scrap, water quenched after coating, pretty hard at about .663 to .664

    Thanks, TJ

  2. #2
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Is this a fixed choke gun?

    If so then you need to fit the payload to the choke which you are doing.

    If screw in choke then cylinder bore or maybe improved cylinder will likely give better results.

    If fixed choke then you are looking at it right doing what you are doing.

    I got best accuracy with 0.662" RB's by cloth patching into Winchester wads making snug fit to bore.

    You won't have room for a cloth patch unless it is very thin and that might work as the cloth will compress.

    Alternately you might try a paper cylinder in the shotcop then seat the ball or maybe easier to put the paper and ball into the shotcup then seat the whole works into the hull. A single wrap of paper should be good to get snug fit through the choke.

    Easier if you can find thicker petal wads. Fit a few thou oversize would be good.

    Something else I found helped is putting a small scoop of Cream O Wheat in the shotcup before seating the ball. You want enough COW to fill the space under the ball and lift it a bit. The COW filler supports the base of the shotcup and keeps it from deforming around the ball.

    In fact I'd try adding the COW to your loads now and try that to see if accuracy improves. I use Lee powder dippers to get a consistent amount of COW.

    If just COW improves accuracy enough it easy to do. If not then try paper tube or get wads with thicker petals.

    Longbow

  3. #3
    Boolit Buddy
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    .662 Round Ball load

    Thanks for the reply. The gun has three chokes, Cyl at .720, Mod @ .710 and Full @ .685.

    Iíll look at paper patching the 12SL and see how it compares to the 12S0 wads.

    Quote Originally Posted by longbow View Post
    COW
    Out of curiosity how much COW to you add? To middle of ball? Less?

    Thanks,

    Tim
    Last edited by TjB101; 05-02-2021 at 04:44 PM.

  4. #4
    Boolit Bub
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    Slightly off topic, but what's the story on roll crimping once fired federals? The height of the cut-away makes it look like you might trim off the original crimp to roll crimp.

  5. #5
    Boolit Buddy
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    .662 Round Ball load

    The cutaway Federal still has its folds ... the one to the right is a dummy with the folds cut off ... wanted to see if the .662 ball would stay in there.

  6. #6
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Seems odd that cylinder is 0.720" should be 0.729"/0.730". Improved cylinder is 0.720".

    You should check the bore to see what diameter it is but if the choke is 0.720" you should make sure the wad/ball fit suits that. Now, just how tight can it be? Ajay Madan (now gone from the site) had posted lots of slug/ball/wad combinations and bore fits which was handy stuff but his thread has been removed so not longer available. He maintained that the push through of wad/slug/ball should be "snug" at 6 to 10 lb. push IIRC.

    An old rule of thumb I have seen repeated is that the ball/wad combo should not be more than 0.003" over the tightest constriction (your choke). However, we have a few people posting here who run much tighter fits to the point that wad petals shear but they are getting good accuracy with their loads. In my opinion (just that... my opinion) a 0.662" ball in a plastic shotcup could be shot through a full choke without damaging anything. The wad petals will shear and the ball is undersize for the choke so safety should not be an issue but accuracy may well be. No, I have not shot a 0.662" RB in a shotcup through a full choke so again just my opinion.

    What I have found in my shooting is that if fit to bore or choke is too tight the wad petals shear and accuracy is poor... at least in my guns with my loads. I have found best accuracy with fit similar to what Ajay recommended or a bit looser.

    As for COW, I don't recall the amount but you want enough to fill the empty space under the ball plus a bit. The COW will compress some and you want to keep the bottom of the shotcup from forming around the ball when 10,000 PSI whacks it in the butt. You can put in enough to raise the ball in the shotcup some too so you may not have to trim petals. I just drop in a nitro card wad then add an appropriate amount of COW from a Lee dipper to lift the ball a bit when it is seated under pressure.

    With your 0.720" choke tube and the fit you have given just adding COW may improve accuracy enough that you don't need to use the paper patch/shim.

    If you have or can get a true cylinder bore choke tube that matches your bore diameter then you could use the cloth patching method which worked very well for me. I used 0.011" cotton cloth which with the wads I had made a very snug push through the bore. You can tailor fit by using different thickness cloth to suit wads you have and your bore/choke. In fact, I'd be tempted to try cloth patching with your 0.720" choke tube. The cloth will compress some so if a loose(ish) fit to bore it should be right for the choke. At worst you'll shear wad petals and accuracy may be poor.

    On that note... sheared wad petals. You should look for spent wads after shooting. The condition of the wads will usually tell you something. If accuracy is good it doesn't matter but if accuracy is poor it just may. That's how I found out my wads were failing under the ball so I added COW filler. The base of the shotcup was distorted and sometimes cracked and many gas seals were blown. I think the bottom of the shotcup wrapping around the ball as the cushion leg compressed resulted in gas seal distortion when the cushion leg compressed. Regardless, accuracy improved bunches after I added the nitro card wad and COW.

    You might be better off with fold crimp instead of roll crimp since the balls are undersize and in shotcups. I have used both successfully but lean to fold crimp for slugs or ball in shotcups.

    Longbow

  7. #7
    Boolit Buddy
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    My .720 must be improved cylinder. Very much appreciate all the comments ... I think Iím good with building up a few dozen test rounds for my next outing.

    So many options to build up the column.

  8. #8
    Boolit Grand Master

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    I should add that the data I was using was for 1 oz. slugs not 1 oz. birdshot loads converted buy subbing the ball.

    Generally dedicated slug loads are higher velocity than typical trap loads and seem to be harder on wads and gas seals.

    Randy Buchannan has good results using 1 oz. trap load data but putting a felt wad into the shotcop with 0.662" RB seated on top... no nitro card wad or other filler. This gives him good accuracy and a mild load.

    Longbow

  9. #9
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    AA hull, WAA 12 wad, 18 gr Green Dot, .662 ball with 1/4" felt wad, fold crimp closed.

    Been doing this for some time and it works pretty well right out of the gate.

    Randy
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    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
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  10. #10
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by W.R.Buchanan View Post
    AA hull, WAA 12 wad, 18 gr Green Dot, .662 ball with 1/4" felt wad, fold crimp closed.

    Been doing this for some time and it works pretty well right out of the gate.

    Randy
    Randy ... thanks for the feedback ... have you ever tried this with a roll crimp vs a fold?

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    I have had success with a 20 ga. cork wad under my .702 ( used in a 12 ga. ) round ball in the shot cup. Might try and figure a way to incorporate that into your load experiments. It did wonders for my 12 ga. RB load.

  12. #12
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by 725 View Post
    I have had success with a 20 ga. cork wad under my .702 ( used in a 12 ga. ) round ball in the shot cup. Might try and figure a way to incorporate that into your load experiments. It did wonders for my 12 ga. RB load.
    Thanks ... always game to try something new ... will see if I can source some.

  13. #13
    Boolit Grand Master

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    I have crimped with both fold and roll crimp and can't say I had any obvious troubles with the roll crimp but I tend to fold crimp for slugs or balls in shotcups now mainly because I don't like the idea of the shotcup petals meeting the edge of a roll crimp. In practice it doesn't seem to matter.

    Ranch Dog did a bunch of testing with Lee slugs and he concluded that fold crimp was more accurate. He has a lengthy thread or two on his load development and final successful load.

    Longbow

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by TjB101 View Post
    Randy ... thanks for the feedback ... have you ever tried this with a roll crimp vs a fold?
    NO; the whole idea here is this my normal Trap load, loaded on my DL266 and it gets fold crimped. Roll Crimping a round ball will generally leave the ball proud above the front of the hull. So this is not something I normally do. Some Slugs work better with Roll Crimps others with fold crimps.

    My main purpose here was to have a Ball Load that was identical to my Trap Load except for the payload.

    The only way to tell these apart my normal AA Trap Loads is that I use the Silver AA Hulls for the Ball Loads.

    I suppose if you put an Overshot card on top of the ball it would Roll Crimp fine.

    Randy
    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
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  15. #15
    Boolit Buddy
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    Great idea with the card on top of the ball ... now to find time to get down in the dungeon to load a few up.

    Appreciate all the help gentlemen. Iíll let you know how I make out. So many options to try.

    Tim

  16. #16
    Boolit Buddy
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    Back to the drawing board. Went to range with 20 rounds of various 662 ball loads. Unfortunately the 25 yard range was closed so I was testing at 50 again. Dismal performance... few of shots looked like the ball never separated from the wad. I think I need to trim the petals next time. Not too discouraged... back to the drawing board. Itís always fun to tinker and work on the optimal load.

  17. #17
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Did you look for any of your wads? The wads will usually tell a story. If they are mangled there is usually an indication as to why... distorted cup bottom, blown gas seal, wrinkled petals.

    Did you just drop the ball into the shotcup and leave rattle fit? If so, try cloth patching to make snug fit or use donut wad under t hff e ball to center it. It doesn't take much "rattle" to destroy accuracy.

    I got a 0.678" ball mould because it would be a "perfect" fit in the wads I had. So it was but I ran out of those wads and got others with slightly thinner petals so a very small amount of " rattle". Accuracy was noticeably worse.

    I found that other patching the 0.662" RB's so the ball/patch/wad fit to bore is snug gave very good accuracy... along with a nitro card wad and scoop of COW under the ball.

    Cloth patching allows custom fit for any wad petal thickness by varying cloth thickness to suit fit. It is extra work but not difficult.

    Alternately look for some steel shot wads with thicker petals.

    Longbow

  18. #18
    Boolit Buddy
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    I wasnít able to get down range after my session. Too many people shooting and I was ready to leave.

    Not too much rattle with the ball in a 12S0 wad ... I paper patched in a WAA12SL wad ... in both I raised the ball with 1/8 felt or two 1/4 in. card

    Thought they were going to work better. Hey, it could be the dot I installed ... may try to pull and just used irons n3xt time ...

    Thereís always a reason to go to the range.

  19. #19
    Boolit Bub
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    double posted somehow.....
    Last edited by Mossy88; 05-22-2021 at 10:08 AM.

  20. #20
    Boolit Bub
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    Pretty much doing the same kind of thing...
    I bought a brass .660 ball mold from a company in the UK.
    but Im just cutting out the inside (center, not the rim) of the crimp of factory loads, dumping the shot and recasting it.
    the ball is just about 1oz.
    Pop the ball in, drop a homemade cardboard overshot wad and sealing it with a little hot glue or clear Elmers.
    Just going to shoot them out of my HD Mossy 88 that is bore choke.
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    Last edited by Mossy88; 05-22-2021 at 10:12 AM.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check