When reforming cases to a different caliber (smaller neck) when should the cases be annealed?
When reforming cases to a different caliber (smaller neck) when should the cases be annealed?
I like to do it after the forming is done. It seems every time I anneal first when necking down, the shoulder collapses.
The best way is probably to try a few, if it doesn't work, try another way. Eventually you will find what works best for you.
Robert
I usually anneal before resizing to minimize wrinkles in the neck/shoulder.
Old enough to know better, young enough to do it anyway!
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When reforming 32/20 to 218Bee I start the necking process with a 25/20 die, then anneal, then size all the way. Hardly ever lose a case.
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I am forming .219 Zipper cases from 30-30 brass. I lost three cases after 2 reloads and one on the first load. I annealed 4 cases that had been completely formed but not ran through the .219 die. That seemed to work very well. I was worried that if I annealed the 30-30 cases I would get wrinkles and brass is to expensive to waste with improper reforming. Thanks for the input!
I do a massive re-forming job on 25 Krag AI - from 30-40 Krag to 25 caliber with a caliber length neck. Usually I neck down with a 7mm die and then again with a 25 caliber neck die - but on the last group my first attempt with the 25 caliber neck die resulted in a completely collapsed shoulder. The next one did not quite completely collapse. I took the rest, set them in water up to the neck, and annealed the necks. Then I was able to size to .25 without collapsing the shoulders. I then annealed the shoulder before fireforming. I only lost one to a shoulder split.
So to answer your question - it depends!
Wayne the Shrink
There is no 'right' that requires me to work for you or you to work for me!
IMHO, annealing after forming is usually best because hard shoulders can better take the sizing force but it really depends on how much diameter change you're making with each step.
The most common failure in annealing is overheating the brass that makes it so soft there's really no effective bullet grip; that damages accuracy because it changes the ignition rate and lowers chamber pressure below most powder's optimum burn rate.
IF the annealed necks get so hot they have any visible red glow at all it's too hot and permanent damage has been done to the necks.
Sometimes "Dumb Luck" is your friend...
I form 22/30's in one swell foop... have yet to anneal... on my 3rd loading... counting fireforming!
Really shoots excellent...and only loose a few.
OTOH... I loose many 8X57 and 7X57 (more 8X57) by splits and wrinkles, forming from Military -06's...and I have annealed before, after, and...whenever I think of it!!! Whoever said "try it to see"!!! Is Absolutely Correct!!!
1. Partial total recalibration
2. Case annealing
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tew45,
I also make 219 Zipper from 30-30, I fl size in 30-30 die then anneal. I found that lube type and application mattered.
I've had to do a couple times what racepres said. Take the brass a looong way in one shot. Last was 45-90 to 8mm. Tried every way under the sun then remembered a long time ago I got PO'ed because I was losing so much brass and sort of slammed a case into the die. Out came a perfectly formed case. I usually don't have much difficulty forming '06 brass to the 57mm length cases but I always have to thin the necks.
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I just did 50 or so 30-06 to 7x57 Mauser and didn't lose any. Some of the brass was very stiff, Peters was worse, but they all worked without annealing first.
Oh, use my new Lyman case trimmer express to trim down. Works really well.
I use imperial sizing wax to form 8x57 from military 30-06 and I have several thousand over the years and I can't remember ever loosing a case to splits or crumpled shoulders. I use a Redding Form & Trim die for the initial step. my experience anyway, james
lee lube and just one step with lee sizing die.
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Mauser cases from 30-06 is a far cry from making .219 Zipper from 30-30.
BP | Bronze Point | IMR | Improved Military Rifle | PTD | Pointed |
BR | Bench Rest | M | Magnum | RN | Round Nose |
BT | Boat Tail | PL | Power-Lokt | SP | Soft Point |
C | Compressed Charge | PR | Primer | SPCL | Soft Point "Core-Lokt" |
HP | Hollow Point | PSPCL | Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" | C.O.L. | Cartridge Overall Length |
PSP | Pointed Soft Point | Spz | Spitzer Point | SBT | Spitzer Boat Tail |
LRN | Lead Round Nose | LWC | Lead Wad Cutter | LSWC | Lead Semi Wad Cutter |
GC | Gas Check |