Lee Classic Turret Press Issues

[jetinteriorguy]

Found something interesting on the turret ring while messing with the press today. While I was checking the fit of the turrets I noticed that the front right side pulled up higher than the left rear side. The left rear side has less movement up and down so I pulled the turret and I found what looks to be an unmachined part of the ring. I checked the other 2 turrets and had the same thing, loose on the right front side and was NO movement up and down on the rear left side of the turret. Attachment 282243
Attachment 282244

I checked mine and that’s supposed to be a groove all the way around the ring. Looks like that’s the problem. I would think Lee could just send you a replacement ring and easy enough to replace yourself. At least this would save you postage sending the whole press back. Or if you have to you could just send the ring back in a small flat rate box pretty cheap.

[Three44s]

I figured it was the press as opposed to the turrets.

I would bet they failed similarity on your ram as well.

Too bad Lee is falling down lately, I have one of these LCTs and it’s a dandy!

Three44s

[1hole]

Don’t get me wrong I really like the press as I will only be using it for pistol but my OCD will drive me nuts till I get that shell holder flat.

First, let's think about all you've said.

You've tried about six shell holders; one fits fine, one won't go in and four have gaps, right? So which that are you chasing? And, how can the error (if any) of five shell holders be attributed to any of them not sitting flat? I suspect you're looking at this through the wrong end of the telescope! The problem, if there is one, probably lies in the ram's slots for containing the shell holders and/or the top surface of the ram itself.

The press will have to pass my concentricity gauge to even be considered for any rifle rounds. If it can’t hold 0.002 then I’ll load for my SR10 in 308 for plinking ammo.

You seek concentricity better than .002" for handgun ammo? Wow. Assuming you mean Total Indicated Runout (T.I.R), that's only .001" of actual tilt and that's well into bench rest and long range rifle ammo!

Thing is, presses just press dies in and out. When that's done the press has done its job; it's the dies, components and loader that do the work. I've been doing this handloading stuff a very long time with a LOT of different equipment but I've never seen a press affect concentricity. ???

Bolt gun gets the LNL which will hold 0.001 or less on almost every round with my setup. Was kinda weird I had to seat my bullets .013 deeper cause they were hitting the rifling? A problem I never had on the LNL, makes me wonder about that concentricity thing.....

Your bullets hit the rifling at different seating depths depending to the press you use? That makes me wonder about that concentricity thing too.

Good luck!

[highmountaincaster]

Easily actually, doesn’t take much mis-machining on the shell holder to leave a gap. However, I also agree also it is the shell holder in the ram because they all slide right in my LNL press. In response to you never seeing a press affect concentricity you must have been lucky because I have seen a press affect concentricity. One that is made too tight or one that is misaligned. I can get rifle rounds under 0.001 TIR fairly easily but there are a few 0.002 ones TIR in there. Of course this is after MY process of doing things. I believe a “looser” press makes better ammo than a tight one does and in my opinion if the LCT press with its floating turret and a couple tweaks should be able to make match grade ammunition. No dis-respect but I have been seating bullets for 20years now and have also seen a thing or two in my day.

[highmountaincaster]

Here is a pic of how mine looks .
Attachment 282269

Yes the ring isn’t machined all the way around. Also looks like yours lug that retains the detent ball isn’t as thick as mine, could just be the way the pic looks though.

[highmountaincaster]

I figured it was the press as opposed to the turrets.

I would bet they failed similarity on your ram as well.

Too bad Lee is falling down lately, I have one of these LCTs and it’s a dandy!

Three44s

You know I sat behind my LCT and worked the ram up and down slowly and can see the indexing rod tilting to the right as the ram moves closer to the turret. Now I don’t know if is suppose to be like that or not, mine has the new plastic square piece atop the indexing rod so I don’t know if that has something to do with it or not.

[1hole]

Easily actually, doesn’t take much mis-machining on the shell holder to leave a gap. However, I also agree also it is the shell holder in the ram because they all slide right in my LNL press.

Right, therefore reworking a specific shell holder isn't the answer to your concern. But, a tiny shell holder-to-die gap is only going to affect the case face a tiny bit, not the run-out. So, the real issue becomes, "How much does that tiny gap matter?" I don't think it's a problem at all for handgun ammo and it's probably not much of a problem for rifle ammo.

In response to you never seeing a press affect concentricity you must have been lucky because I have seen a press affect concentricity. One that is made too tight or one that is misaligned.

Yes.

If the ram alignment is good the tightness won't matter but tight and misaligned sure matters. Even then the real problem is a slightly banana shaped case, not concentricity, as such.

I can get rifle rounds under 0.001 TIR fairly easily but there are a few 0.002 ones TIR in there. Of course this is after MY process of doing things.

You switch between "concentricity" and T.I.R. easily but they are not the same and we can't know which you mean; do you mean case neck runout or loaded bullet runout? And where on either one we take our readings matter ... a LOT! I mean, we can change case/bullet TIR by half, or less, if we measure a neck close to the case shoulder vs. the mouth OR at the bullet's body vs. the meplat.

Accuracy? Handguns at their best aren't B.R. tools. I don't believe any common handgun bullets (especially cast) and no common handguns ever made are going to see an accuracy improvement if the bullet's are precisely seated concentric to the cartridge center line or off by less than a few thou. ???

I believe a “looser” press makes better ammo than a tight one does and in my opinion if the LCT press with its floating turret and a couple tweaks should be able to make match grade ammunition.

Totally agree about the accuracy value of a "loose" press.

I sometimes read someone basically saying his press is "Worn out and needs to be tossed" because the raised ram wobbles a bit. I want to scream, "NO! Your press has finally gotten loose enough to allow your dies and cases to precisely self align for best accuracy."

No dis-respect but I have been seating bullets for 20 years now and have also seen a thing or two in my day.

No sweat, I'm 80 and mature enough to not take offense when no offense is intended. Twenty years ago, back when you started reloading I had already been doing it for some 35 years! I've not seen or know everything but I have never seen a press cause run-out nor do I know anyone who has.

Of course it isn't the thinning white hair or years of reloading that really matter here, it's how much has actually been learned. I know of a few really good reloaders who have 20 years of learning behind them and others who have about 1 year of experience they've been repeating for 20 years without learning another thing about what they're doing. (Seems a lot of them post on the web!)

[highmountaincaster]

Right, therefore reworking a specific shell holder isn't the answer to your concern. But, a tiny shell holder-to-die gap is only going to affect the case face a tiny bit, not the run-out. So, the real issue becomes, "How much does that tiny gap matter?" I don't think it's a problem at all for handgun ammo and it's probably not much of a problem for rifle ammo.



Yes.

If the ram alignment is good the tightness won't matter but tight and misaligned sure matters. Even then the real problem is a slightly banana shaped case, not concentricity, as such.



You switch between "concentricity" and T.I.R. easily but they are not the same and we can't know which you mean; do you mean case neck runout or loaded bullet runout? And where on either one we take our readings matter ... a LOT! I mean, we can change case/bullet TIR by half, or less, if we measure a neck close to the case shoulder vs. the mouth OR at the bullet's body vs. the meplat.

Accuracy? Handguns at their best aren't B.R. tools. I don't believe any common handgun bullets (especially cast) and no common handguns ever made are going to see an accuracy improvement if the bullet's are precisely seated concentric to the cartridge center line or off by less than a few thou. ???



Totally agree about the accuracy value of a "loose" press.

I sometimes read someone basically saying his press is "Worn out and needs to be tossed" because the raised ram wobbles a bit. I want to scream, "NO! Your press has finally gotten loose enough to allow your dies and cases to precisely self align for best accuracy."



No sweat, I'm 80 and mature enough to not take offense when no offense is intended. Twenty years ago, back when you started reloading I had already been doing it for some 35 years! I've not seen or know everything but I have never seen a press cause run-out nor do I know anyone who has.

Of course it isn't the thinning white hair or years of reloading that really matter here, it's how much has actually been learned. I know of a few really good reloaders who have 20 years of learning behind them and others who have about 1 year of experience they've been repeating for 20 years without learning another thing about what they're doing. (Seems a lot of them post on the web!)

1hole, I agree. I was self taught by trail and error over the years and my equipment tends to grow with me and I can see what “new” and shiny equipment that is offered now to new reloaders as the “must have” item. I think knowledge is the most valuable piece of equipment a reloader can have and will often dictate what actually makes you a more precise reloader. Oh I did make a mistake using concentricity and TIR in the same manner because I often get necks 0.001 or less any variation more then that is typically in the neck thickeness as after I expand using a mandrel and turn there is basically 0 deviation to 0.001. The completed round I like to see a TIR of 0.001 but 0.002 is acceptable. Even though to some degree I do not think of either so much a matter of accuracy as much as I do quality. Kind of surprising how much a so called “crooked” bullet will shoot. Whether it really matter because having perfectly straight ammo doesn’t matter to much if you have tolerance stacking between your lugs, bolt head, chamber, and bore or wether a shooter is even good enough to take advantage of such a perfect setup.

[highmountaincaster]

I just want to use the darn thing, I have 9mm, 38spl, and a 308 I’d like to try on it. Nothing more frustrating than buying something that’s doomed from the get go.

[Three44s]

You know I sat behind my LCT and worked the ram up and down slowly and can see the indexing rod tilting to the right as the ram moves closer to the turret. Now I don’t know if is suppose to be like that or not, mine has the new plastic square piece atop the indexing rod so I don’t know if that has something to do with it or not.

I am out of my “pay grade” on that question as I do not use my auto index, sorry.

Best regards

Three44s

[onelight]

You know I sat behind my LCT and worked the ram up and down slowly and can see the indexing rod tilting to the right as the ram moves closer to the turret. Now I don’t know if is suppose to be like that or not, mine has the new plastic square piece atop the indexing rod so I don’t know if that has something to do with it or not.

I don't think the indexing rod has any bearing on the problem it's sole function is rotation and the bottom end is not even retained it just sits on the cast iron base.

I don't no where you are but if you are near Oklahoma City I have several other turrets you could try.
If the steel top of the press is not machined properly Lee should replace it , and anything else that is out a wack

[Three44s]

I don't think the indexing rod has any bearing on the problem it's sole function is rotation and the bottom end is not even retained it just sits on the cast iron base.

I don't no where you are but if you are near Oklahoma City I have several other turrets you could try.
If the steel top of the press is not machined properly Lee should replace it , and anything else that is out a wack

My wild guess is the torque from dragging a turret?

Three44s

[highmountaincaster]

I just watched a few videos and most seem like the rotate pretty smooth, mine is ok but not like the others if seen. I tried putting my magnetic base and DTI on the ram and there is only 0.005 of ram movement between the ram and cast iron housing at the top of the stroke which is fine with me. Also put it on the ram while moving it up and down and only get about 0.002 to 0.003 deviation so that’s good, just must be the indexing rod giving when rotating the turret. Looks like I just got a sloppy turret and a bad ring. Which would explain why the original one works OK but the other two do not. I guess I could have mounted my DTI on top the turret to see exactly what kind of lift I get in the front as compared to the back, however I deemed this unnecessary because you can clearly see it lifts about twice as much in the front than the back. Also that the back part has minimal vertical movement as compared to the front and stems across all 3 turrets I’d would say the ring is the issue. I use to be a machinist and have 12 yrs experience accompanied by a metal lathe and a milling machine. So, I could probably fix it myself with some ingenuity but I’ll see what Lee says tomorrow before I try anything.

[highmountaincaster]

Well I called lee today and I have to say I was impressed with their customer service. A nice gentleman took my call and they believe I got a bad turret ring, there sending me a new one free of charge. He agreed that I shouldn’t have 3 turrets and only one works. He also stated they never made any design changes to their turrets so they all should work. So, why one of mine has a shoulder on it is anyone’s guess. I am just glad they took care of me, that’s how customer service should be. He did state however if the new turret ring doesn’t work that I’ll have to send my press in so they can figure out what is going on. Of course i don’t see why it wouldn’t but keep my fingers crossed. I’ll post an update after I receive the new turret.

[Three44s]

Glad Lee seems to be fast on this!

You still have that ram issue though?

Three44s

[onelight]

That is great to hear !
The LCT is my favorite press to load on due to the unique combination of features it has .
Lee has made a gazillion of them and if yours has a problem they should fix it.
I have never broken the plastic pice at the bottom that indexes the rod but one of my buddy's is heavy handed and has broken a couple . They are cheap I have a couple of spares just in case , they are easy to replace if you do break one might consider getting a couple if you plan on using the auto index feature.

[highmountaincaster]

Glad Lee seems to be fast on this!

You still have that ram issue though?

Three44s

I checked all my shell holders I have and only 1 doesn’t fit. Prob just a bad one, it was from Hornady.

[highmountaincaster]

That is great to hear !
The LCT is my favorite press to load on due to the unique combination of features it has .
Lee has made a gazillion of them and if yours has a problem they should fix it.
I have never broken the plastic pice at the bottom that indexes the rod but one of my buddy's is heavy handed and has broken a couple . They are cheap I have a couple of spares just in case , they are easy to replace if you do break one might consider getting a couple if you plan on using the auto index feature.

I bought 6 spares just in case that would happen.

[onelight]

I have a Hornady shell holder that won't fit in one of my Lyman presses or my Lee.

[highmountaincaster]

I have a Hornady shell holder that won't fit in one of my Lyman presses or my Lee.

No big deal I’ll just chuck it up and turn a few thou off.