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Thread: Looking for help on reloading 1 3/4 shot shells.

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy
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    Looking for help on reloading 1 3/4 shot shells.

    I have never reloaded for shotgun but with the prices of the 1 3/4 inch shells near a $1 per round and not being able to find any 4 shot or 00. I have been looking into reloading my own.

    Yet I don't know where to start I know I want to do a roll crimp as told it's hard to get the star with the 1 3/4 also going to be doing slugs also since I'm going down the rabbit hole might as well cast for it also.

    So looking for any advice on doing this thanks!

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
    toallmy's Avatar
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    I wish I could help you with load information , but it's not a lot of it out there for short shells . But roll crimping is a fun project in itself .

  3. #3
    Boolit Master

    William Yanda's Avatar
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    Check with Ballistic Products. Also, be aware that short shells are specifically warned against in some Winchester pump
    shotguns.
    Micah 6:8
    He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?

    "I don't have hobbies - I'm developing a robust post-apocalyptic skill set"
    I may be discharged and retired but I'm sure I did not renounce the oath that I solemnly swore!

  4. #4
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by William Yanda View Post
    Check with Ballistic Products. Also, be aware that short shells are specifically warned against in some Winchester pump
    shotguns.
    That's why I buy Mossberg!��

    Thanks for the info I did not know that some shotguns had warning about that. Makes you think why would one but not the others?

    Edited: The Ballistic Products was the company I was told about and have looked at the only problem is the $220 press then another $45+ to get the small shells is a lot of money to start off.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master

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    starting cheep and reloading shot shells are not synonymous.
    if you are ever being chased by a taxidermist, don't play dead

  6. #6
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Yes, BPI has some short hull load data available. I don't recall if it is as short as 1 3/4" or not. 2" yes but not sure about shorter.

    There are also threads on mini shells and reloading so that may yield some info if you search.

    There's some info here too in a link:

    https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...hell-load-data

    And some more info here:

    https://www.guns.com/news/review/how...shells-and-why

    and even more!

    https://www.msgo.com/threads/short-m...gas-now.81341/

    I may try this myself now that I've looked it up.

    Longbow

  7. #7
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by rancher1913 View Post
    starting cheep and reloading shot shells are not synonymous.
    I know but $265 is a lot of money. You can get a Lee load all for $72 though reloading shotgun was much cheaper then brass?

    I'm only looking for a single stage well really it seems I'm only looking for something that will do a roll crimp for 1 3/4 there tools on Amazon for under $40 that does the roll crimp bad part smallest it does is 2 inch.

  8. #8
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by longbow View Post
    Yes, BPI has some short hull load data available. I don't recall if it is as short as 1 3/4" or not. 2" yes but not sure about shorter.

    There are also threads on mini shells and reloading so that may yield some info if you search.

    There's some info here too in a link:

    https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...hell-load-data

    And some more info here:

    https://www.guns.com/news/review/how...shells-and-why

    and even more!

    https://www.msgo.com/threads/short-m...gas-now.81341/

    I may try this myself now that I've looked it up.

    Longbow
    Thanks! A lot of good info wish the gun news guy would post where he found the crimp and the vice to hold the shell for the drill press.

  9. #9
    Boolit Grand Master

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    BPI and likely Precision Reloading have have hull vises:

    https://www.ballisticproducts.com/mo...ductinfo/VISE/

    or you can make a simple tong type squeeze vice out of plywood like this:

    https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...p?394827-Hull-
    vise/page2

    Longbow

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    Why do you want a press to roll crimp ? You can order primed hulls .

  11. #11
    Boolit Buddy
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    Found that this can be done cheap! Gear and all less then $100!

  12. #12
    Boolit Master

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    With little data and the pressure concerns I would think short shells is a poor starting place for the novice.
    "My main ambition in life is to be on the devil's most wanted list."
    Leonard Ravenhill

  13. #13
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hogtamer View Post
    With little data and the pressure concerns I would think short shells is a poor starting place for the novice.
    Wise words. I used to load over 20k hulls a year so not a novice at it. I looked at shorty shells a few years ago to increase round count for SHTF. Decided not to risk it. With my luck, I would gel a jam when things got “hot”. Not worth it. My main defensive shotgun has an 8 round magazine and a side saddle with six more rounds. That is a lot of fire power. Even my unmodified M500 has 5 in the Mag and 6 in the side saddle.

    I have never had a FTF. There is a lot of reliable and safe data for 2 3/4 hulls....seems silly to get cute.

    My advise if you go down that path is invest in the BPI data. They test their loads.
    Don Verna


  14. #14
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hogtamer View Post
    With little data and the pressure concerns I would think short shells is a poor starting place for the novice.
    Is it any harder then measuring the amount of powder that comes from a 2 3/4 round then using 1/4 of that as a starting load?

    Yet I do hear you I have read that there is reloading data out there for these rounds.

  15. #15
    Boolit Grand Master

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    A concern is that when loading short hulls there is a tendency to use load data for a wad with cushion leg but substitute a gas seal and card wad column to shorten everything up. I cannot prove it because I don't have pressure testing gear but when I compared BPI short hull data to full length hull data it seemed to me that same basic powder and payload ran at higher pressure in the shorter hull... or same pressure with less powder

    I have also gotten sticky extraction after subbing a solid wad column for a recipe calling for cushion leg wad. That implies higher pressure. As the saying goes... "Good judgement comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgement!" I can speak to that!

    My take on this is that if the cushion leg is spec'd but solid wad column used there is a pressure spike due to less volume at ignition with the solid wad column. A cushion leg compresses as pressure builds so larger volume initially.

    I think the effect is greater with faster powders but again, that is speculation on my part. Just be careful! If you get sticky extraction you are well over standard pressure! Stop and don't shoot any more of those rounds.

    And yes, there can be issues starting at 1/4 of the recommended powder charge. If there isn't enough pressure you will get poor burn and possibly bloopers. You could wind up with a slug stuck in the barrel so a problem if you run another round in the chamber then pull the trigger.

    Better to use published and pressure tested recipes. 2nd best is to use a low pressure recipe of say 6000 or maybe 7000 PSI for full length hull. Then if there is a pressure increase due to shorter hull there is a healthy cushion of safety.

    Longbow

  16. #16
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    I find it amusing that everyone pontificate advice but nowhere does the OP indicate what gauge shotshell he is loading for....
    The ENEMY is listening.
    HE wants to know what YOU know.
    Keep it to yourself.

  17. #17
    Boolit Grand Master

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    True enough!

    He does mention 00 buckbthough so I have to think that implies 12 ga. or larger.

    Also, I don't believe mini shells are offered in any gauge but 12 ga.

    So... I assumed 12 ga. but you know what they say about assuming!

    Longbow

  18. #18
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    Disclaimer. I have not tried these!

    LOAD OF THE WEEK

    12ga Cheddite “Mini-Shells” 1-7/8”

    These loads are some of the first handloads that were done with MEC’s new Mini-Shell Conversion Kit. Make sure that the crimp is good and tight. Use an OS12 if you have room.

    Load#N10815
    HULL: Cheddite Mini-Shell 12ga 1-7/8”
    PRIMER: CH209
    PROPELLANT: Hodgdon Titewad 14.0 Grains
    WAD: FS12 + 18CW20
    SHOT: 7/8 oz #8 NP lead
    FOLD CRIMP: 6-point
    Results: 7100 PSI 980 FPS

    Load#N10816
    HULL: Cheddite Mini-Shell 12ga 1-7/8”
    PRIMER: CH209
    PROPELLANT: Alliant Bullseye 14.0 Grains
    WAD: FS12 + 18CW20
    SHOT: 7/8 oz #8 NP lead
    FOLD CRIMP: 6-point
    Results: 5500 PSI 920 FPS

    Tested loads
    Federal once fired hull 1-3/4”
    W209 primer
    18 gr Green Dot
    1 of ” felt wad over powder (dollar store chair bottom)
    1 of 7/8 shot cup (cut off cushion, used the cup and petals of regular 7/8 oz wad)
    1 of 20 ga nitro card in bottom of cup
    5/8 oz of #5 bird shot
    1 of clear over-card #OSC12
    Roll crimp
    Winchester pump 1200 with full choke 28” barrel
    14 diameter patterns at 25 yards (repeatable)
    Low recoil

    At just 1 3/4 inches long, the 12-gauge shells offer similar patterns, energy and accuracy as full-size loads. The Shorty Shotshells come in 8 shot, 4 buck and rifled slugs.

    I found the BPI "Roll Crimping Your Shotshells "data sheet.

    Load #1
    2" 12 gauge Fiocchi Hull
    FIO616 primer
    19gr Green Dot
    X12X + 14CW(12GA)
    7/8oz lead shot
    COS12 overshot card
    Roll Crimp
    8800 psi, 1270fps

    Load #2
    2" 12 gauge Fiocchi Hull
    FIO616 primer
    21gr PB
    X12X + 18FW(12GA)
    1oz lead shot
    COS12 overshot card
    Roll Crimp
    9500psi, 1275 fps


    note: the X12X is an excellent overpowder gas seal sold by BPI
    14CW is BPI's 12ga 1/4" cork wad
    18FW is BPI's 12ga 1/8" felt wad

  19. #19
    Boolit Master

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    Buckshot not mentioned and the space taken up by buckshot yields less weight.
    "My main ambition in life is to be on the devil's most wanted list."
    Leonard Ravenhill

  20. #20
    Boolit Master
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    when I need info on anything shotshell I'm not sure of I get out email to the curmudgeon at ballistic products

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check