220 swift for deer

[white eagle]

personally have shot many many deer like you I have been on farms where deer are a real problem and shooting deer is the priority.I have made your 100 deer mark and then some.I thought this site was about discussion I missed the memo that came out against that.I also see that some people have such a limited view that they are willing to call other's irresponsible and intentional game cripplers for not shooting the guns they deem appropriate
Aren't you they same guy that said the mighty 30 carbine was more than adequate for deer,seems to me there is a huge double standard

[Lloyd Smale]

said that when i was young my first deer rifle was a 30 carbine and i did kill deer with it. When i was young and didnt know better and listened to what my dad said and to be truthful my dad wasnt one that gave a rip about a deer suffering. He was old school from a poor family and all he cared about was meat. Add to that where he put me you coulld find a shot longer then what a bow would take care of. Ive also shot deer with a 300 bo and to be honest feel that is far superior for taking deer then a 223 that shoots bullets made for ground hogs. Would i give even that to my grandkids to kill deer with? heck no! You have to remember one BIG thing. Just asking on the internet if a 223 is an adequate deer rifle shows immediately that you dont know and are not experienced.

Like i said too you might get away with it if your a real good shot and cool as a cucumber when shooting but shoot 20 and your going to have one that runs off wounded and good luck with finding a blood trail to track. I AM NOT YOUR DADDY. On here i can only give advice ive learned from actually killing MANY deer. Not advice that i got from someone who knows someone who knows someone in texas that thinks killing deer with the smallest possible gun is some badge of expertise or makes them a real man. You tell me what ADVANTAGE a 223 has over an 06 or even a 3030 or 243?? What makes your mind tick when you grab it from the safe when theres better guns there. What is your goal and reason? Sorry but i just dont understand. You want to kill with a 556 you should have raised your right hand. Uncle sam would have gladly abridged you.

I love shooting my ars. Probably more then any other gun. I also have 22 centerfire guns for varmint hunting. I KNOW they will kill. Like i said so will a 22lr. Doesnt mean if im heading to africa im taking one along to shoot kuda and wildebeest. Doesnt mean that if i KNOW i might run into the buck of a lifetime id sure be happy i took along a pipsqueek gun like a 223. I AM A GUN GUY. Like most on here. I have more experience with guns ballistics loading and killing then the average guy buying ammo at walmart. I dont have only one centerfire rifle i have guns I know are a proper fit for what im going to hunt. The pride you have should be in that knowlege and skill and that you know better. Not that your so good you can kill with wrist rocket!! But like I said im not your dad and as much as I respect my own hes sure the last one im going to for gun advice. He still brags on how many deer his dad killed with his 25-20 92 winchester.

When i was young i did what young man do and now im a man and-----------------------------. Remeber too like i said when your giving advice your giving it not to experts but to mostly inexperienced hunters. Id bet if we could take a poll of everyone here the average deer kill total would probably be around a half a dozen. You really going to tell people like that to grab a 223 when they might walk out on to a field that has the buck of a lifetime 300 yards across the way?? When the wind is blowing 20 mph and the deer isnt standing just right. You say youve killed a pile of deer. Id bet youve been in that situation. Its about like showing up at the indy 500 with a toyota corolla. Yup you can line it up but it sure is going to make you a loser in the end. Or building a house with a acre of pine trees and cross cut saw and a hammer and building that house just to prove your a better carpenter then me. Look at what the professional home builder brings to the site. THEY KNOW BETTER. Ill bow out of this one now because we can go round and round but truth be told ALMOST everyone here knows better.

[white eagle]

I have had run off's, like you said, with many different cals
last one was a 30-06 I have been hunting deer over 50 years I do know what it takes
the question was raised for discussion
can't take a new look at the way you do things like most set in their ways
good luck to ya

[centershot]

Clearly, some here have profound opinions regarding an appropriate caliber for deer hunting. So do I. I maintain that a 220 Swift, 22-250 or 223 is such a caliber. IF you load it with an appropriate bullet, and that is the key! Varmint bullets should not be used on deer, I think we all agree on that. But, load a Speer 62 gr. Gold Dot, or any other bonded-core bullet, or on of the partition bullets, now you've got something. Even the cup & core Speer 70 gr. soft point is an excellent deer bullet at 22-250 velocities. It's about the BULLET! All this banter about large caliber, small caliber, magnums or non-managnums is just that; Banter! Even with an '06, you need a good bullet, not a varmint bullet. And now someone will respond and say how many deer they've killed with their '06 using 110 gr. HP's......UGGHH!

The topic was about "Is the Swift a good deer cartridge", well, "YES, it is", when you load it properly. I'm not sorry if that offends someones sensitivities. If you're not responsible enough to pass on "iffy" shots, please get out of the woods!

[waksupi]

said that when i was young my first deer rifle was a 30 carbine and i did kill deer with it. When i was young and didnt know better and listened to what my dad said and to be truthful my dad wasnt one that gave a rip about a deer suffering. He was old school from a poor family and all he cared about was meat. Add to that where he put me you coulld find a shot longer then what a bow would take care of. Ive also shot deer with a 300 bo and to be honest feel that is far superior for taking deer then a 223 that shoots bullets made for ground hogs. Would i give even that to my grandkids to kill deer with? heck no! You have to remember one BIG thing. Just asking on the internet if a 223 is an adequate deer rifle shows immediately that you dont know and are not experienced.

Like i said too you might get away with it if your a real good shot and cool as a cucumber when shooting but shoot 20 and your going to have one that runs off wounded and good luck with finding a blood trail to track. I AM NOT YOUR DADDY. On here i can only give advice ive learned from actually killing MANY deer. Not advice that i got from someone who knows someone who knows someone in texas that thinks killing deer with the smallest possible gun is some badge of expertise or makes them a real man. You tell me what ADVANTAGE a 223 has over an 06 or even a 3030 or 243?? What makes your mind tick when you grab it from the safe when theres better guns there. What is your goal and reason? Sorry but i just dont understand. You want to kill with a 556 you should have raised your right hand. Uncle sam would have gladly abridged you.

I love shooting my ars. Probably more then any other gun. I also have 22 centerfire guns for varmint hunting. I KNOW they will kill. Like i said so will a 22lr. Doesnt mean if im heading to africa im taking one along to shoot kuda and wildebeest. Doesnt mean that if i KNOW i might run into the buck of a lifetime id sure be happy i took along a pipsqueek gun like a 223. I AM A GUN GUY. Like most on here. I have more experience with guns ballistics loading and killing then the average guy buying ammo at walmart. I dont have only one centerfire rifle i have guns I know are a proper fit for what im going to hunt. The pride you have should be in that knowlege and skill and that you know better. Not that your so good you can kill with wrist rocket!! But like I said im not your dad and as much as I respect my own hes sure the last one im going to for gun advice. He still brags on how many deer his dad killed with his 25-20 92 winchester.

When i was young i did what young man do and now im a man and-----------------------------. Remeber too like i said when your giving advice your giving it not to experts but to mostly inexperienced hunters. Id bet if we could take a poll of everyone here the average deer kill total would probably be around a half a dozen. You really going to tell people like that to grab a 223 when they might walk out on to a field that has the buck of a lifetime 300 yards across the way?? When the wind is blowing 20 mph and the deer isnt standing just right. You say youve killed a pile of deer. Id bet youve been in that situation. Its about like showing up at the indy 500 with a toyota corolla. Yup you can line it up but it sure is going to make you a loser in the end. Or building a house with a acre of pine trees and cross cut saw and a hammer and building that house just to prove your a better carpenter then me. Look at what the professional home builder brings to the site. THEY KNOW BETTER. Ill bow out of this one now because we can go round and round but truth be told ALMOST everyone here knows better.

The older we get, the smarter we get.

[Lloyd Smale]

The older we get, the smarter we get.

yes sir. its called REAL WORLD EXPERIENCE. I remember probably 20 years ago sucking up casting knowledge from guys like felix and you that had MORE experience then me. Im glad i payed attention. Doesn't take but a keyboard today and an internet search to be a expert. Some just refuse to listen to someone thats been there and done that. Me? I still learn.

[white eagle]

In my research on the 220 swift for deer hunting I read from a author that
stated that under average hunting conditions if a 100 head of deer could be killed,by each,between the 220 swift and the 30-06 he thinks the 220 swift would come out the winner.
He also stated that there were failures with other high velocity cartridges as well but was clear in his respect for the swift as a hunting round of deer sized game
not bad for a lowly 22 cal ehh?

[barrabruce]

I have never even seen a real wild deer..

But over in New Zealand they culled many heards of deer with 222’s using choppers to haul them out.
Don’t know the kill ratio but is was like one to the head type shooting.
Just putting it out there.

[white eagle]

oh yeah the author was a guy named P.O Ackley
I know for a fact that he has more knowledge about firearms than some of the self proclaimed experts on this board

[OldBearHair]

Shot a coyote broadside at approx.100 yards with .222 Rem. with 50 grain Sierra bullet. Three "quarter" sized exit wounds two inches apart. The jacket separated and traveled under the skin to the hip. The insides of the coyote seemed to be a churned up mess. I can imagine what damage would be inside the ribs on a deer sized animal with the same bullet.

[centershot]

Shot a coyote broadside at approx.100 yards with .222 Rem. with 50 grain Sierra bullet. Three "quarter" sized exit wounds two inches apart. The jacket separated and traveled under the skin to the hip. The insides of the coyote seemed to be a churned up mess. I can imagine what damage would be inside the ribs on a deer sized animal with the same bullet.

Mmmmmm........That's what I'd expect from that load on a coyote, bang-dead! But, on a deer, personally, I wouldn't use that load unless it was a head shot or nothing. And I don't like to take head shots.

The key to success when using .22 centerfires on deer is to use the right bullet. The partition bullets, the Speer Gold Dots ant their 70 grain soft point have proven themselves for years to be entirely capable! You don't reload? Have a look at the Fusion ammunition line, it's loaded with the Gold Dot and has killed 7 deer for me! I now handload the Gold Dot over a charge of BLC-2 that creates 2980 fps from my .223 Rem. caliber Ruger American. I do not feel under gunned out to 200 yards! The Swift or the 22-250 can provide higher velocity and flatter trajectories, might be interesting to take one on an antelope hunt!?

[MT Gianni]

oh yeah the author was a guy named P.O Ackley
I know for a fact that he has more knowledge about firearms than some of the self proclaimed experts on this board

Parker love high velocity. If it were not for it's lack of range he would have recommended a wildcat 17 over the swift.

[centershot]

Parker love high velocity. If it were not for it's lack of range he would have recommended a wildcat 17 over the swift.

Wasn't he the man who machined bullets from solid brass rod to shoot elk with a .17 wildcat cartridge?

[OldBearHair]

Shot a coyote broadside at approx.100 yards with .222 Rem. with 50 grain Sierra bullet. Three "quarter" sized exit wounds two inches apart. The jacket separated and traveled under the skin to the hip. The insides of the coyote seemed to be a churned up mess. I can imagine what damage would be inside the ribs on a deer sized animal with the same bullet.

I should have added that I wouldn't shoot a deer with a .222. I was thinking in the manner that the shot on a deer would probably be fatal, but might be after 3/4 to a mile or more away and maybe the next day or longer. I have seen and heard of deer being taken that had been shot in the jaw or nose, etc. caused by headshots. And yes those .222 loads were reloads and I will stick with the load for prairie dogs. The rifle shot less than MOA.

[GONRA]

GONRA recalls (I think) an olde (late 1950's) GUNS magazine article where the author made
solid brass Spitzer .224 bullets, loaded in his .220 Swift caliber huntin' rifle.
Blasted away at various woods beasties to test the "Nerve Shock Theory".....

Apparently you can shoot a Jack Rabbit thru the lungs and he'll just scratch the
entrance hole and go on nibbling yummy green stoffe. For a minute or so....

Shooting Bambi from behind was quite a different matter......

[Landshark9025]

Silly question for those who've used a very high velocity round like this: If this "went off like a bomb" in the chest cavity and "turned it's lungs into goo" or other such reports- was there a loss of meat due to it being bloodshot? Just as one can use too much gun and result in meat loss, I'm curious if the same can be said here.

[Tripplebeards]

yes sir. its called REAL WORLD EXPERIENCE. I remember probably 20 years ago sucking up casting knowledge from guys like felix and you that had MORE experience then me. Im glad i payed attention. Doesn't take but a keyboard today and an internet search to be a expert. Some just refuse to listen to someone thats been there and done that. Me? I still learn.

Isn’t that the truth! I remember being a kid in and leaning how to bow hunt in the late 70’s/early 80’s. I put down the Atari controller and started asking people questions, reading books, and then the VCR came out to watch a few videos that were available to rent at the local gun shop! Unfortunately I lost a few deer due to no one ever teaching me corect shot placement. If it was not for this forum I would have quit casting before I started.

[LIMPINGJ]

Wouldn’t be my choice but to honest I’ve used my 222RemMag to kill deer and pigs. Notice is said kill as in going out to kill one for meat where I knew the range would be short and would wait for the shot I wanted to so as to not lose any meat. If hunting where the range and shot will be unknown I’ll take one of my 7mms or bigger.

[wmitty]

I’d like to go close to the other end of the spectrum for an example of bullet failure I experienced which “0pened my eyes”. Using a 700 REM 7 mag w/ 175 grain rem pointed sp core locks (sp) I called in a medium sized coyote while deer hunting in heavy n e Texas woods. Upon examination of the coyote I was amazed at the damage and went back and sat down thinking “wow, that heavy for caliber bullet sure opened up quickly!” I realized the trees were so thick I had an opportunity to find the impact location so I started searching the backs of trees for splinters which would indicate passage thru that tree. I soon realized there were no splintered trees. Somewhat perplexed, I began looking at the fronts of those trees immediately behind the place the unfortunate ‘dog had been standing. Stuck in the bark of an 8-10” elm was the jacket (no core) of Remington’s premier hunting “controlled expansion “ design bullet. It had exploded on a rather unimpressive coyote at roughly 2850 fps muzzle velocity. The shot was very close, probably no more than 30’. This incident caused me to ponder the wisdom of placing much faith in a standard cup and core bullet design if I ever had the opportunity to hunt big game. I have not taken deer with a .22 center fire, but after my experience with the 7 mm I would choose a bullet design capable of penetrating along with expansion.

[murf205]

I have read all the post with quite some interest but unless you have been giving deer Valium, the ones I have hunted for the last 55 yrs will NOT keep their head still to make a RELIABLE head shot at any range. They are constantly jerking their head up to sniff and survey the surroundings. Shoot 'em with whatever you want to because, probably, no one here is going to change your mind but a fine game animal like a deer of any kind deserves a quick demise and the gore of a head shot is NOT something you should ever display in pics. Hunters draw enough heat as it is.