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Thread: Range Lead - Uses

  1. #21
    Boolit Master

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    The range scrap I get has been testing in the 10+ range for hardness. but there was a quite a bit of cast mixed in with the jacketed stuff. This scrap was from an outdoor range.

  2. #22
    Boolit Master


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    low bhn, low pressure, low fps

    38's.... 45acp... shotgun pellets, buck or slugs.. etc

  3. #23
    Boolit Grand Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by robertbank View Post
    Or you can just throw WW alloy ingots into a mix of one lb of RL to 2 lbs if WW alloy and water quench them. Note: I just use similar sized mini block of WW& RL. The resulting allow works in 30.06, .303Br, 30-30, 7.62x39 with GC's and a host of pistols calibers from 9MM to 44mag. I would use your suggestion if I was sure i managed the correct amount of tin to come up with exactly 2% tin and it made a real world difference in shooting. From what I can see you are suggesting a more complex method based upon a number assumptions some of which may or may not be true.

    None of this has to be approached like you might if you were building a rocket ship.

    Take Care

    Bob
    That's a pretty good assumption in and of itself. Adding COWW to such RL only adds lead and additional antimony with next to no tin. That only exacerbates the level of antimony. Back in the day when COWWs actually had some tin in them adding COWWs many times worked. Not so much these days though. Adding the 2% tin will make the alloy very similar to COWWs of those days gone by.

    How "complex" can adding 2% tin be? Using 10 lbs of range alloy and adding 2% tin is simply adding 3.2 ounces of tin....... Based on my experience of using a lot of range lead from jacketed bullets adding the 2% tin works out extremely well giving bullets that cast quite well at 700 - 725 degrees and have a close to 95/2.5/2.5 content (yes I have had such alloy tested). Such bullets cast of the RL + the 2% tin will perform quite well in all calibers the OP mentions.
    Larry Gibson

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  4. #24
    Boolit Grand Master


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    The hardness of range scrap can vary a lot. With 3000#, be sure you test the ingots before you start casting. Don’t assume they are all going to be the same hardness. Do a test with a small amount, adding some tin to see if their’s any improvement in how they cast. If there are pieces of targets or wood chips mixed in, I don’t worry about trying to remove it. When heated it turns into flux.

  5. #25
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    https://www.rmrbullets.com/shop/rmr-...nnel-hardness/

    Casting Lead from RMR Jacketed Bullet Cores (approximately 10 Brinnel hardness) This lead is 2.5-3% antimony.


    **scrapyards pay more for shiny cores what's the best way to clean the cores after "smelting" the lead out???

    I found that using BOTH pine sawdust AND wax get more lead out of the jackets.

  6. #26
    Boolit Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Gibson View Post
    That's a pretty good assumption in and of itself. Adding COWW to such RL only adds lead and additional antimony with next to no tin. That only exacerbates the level of antimony. Back in the day when COWWs actually had some tin in them adding COWWs many times worked. Not so much these days though. Adding the 2% tin will make the alloy very similar to COWWs of those days gone by.

    How "complex" can adding 2% tin be? Using 10 lbs of range alloy and adding 2% tin is simply adding 3.2 ounces of tin....... Based on my experience of using a lot of range lead from jacketed bullets adding the 2% tin works out extremely well giving bullets that cast quite well at 700 - 725 degrees and have a close to 95/2.5/2.5 content (yes I have had such alloy tested). Such bullets cast of the RL + the 2% tin will perform quite well in all calibers the OP mentions.
    Agreed. Melt & mold temp and some tin have always made more difference to me when casting with ww or range lead.

  7. #27
    Boolit Grand Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by Conditor22 View Post
    https://www.rmrbullets.com/shop/rmr-...nnel-hardness/

    Casting Lead from RMR Jacketed Bullet Cores (approximately 10 Brinnel hardness) This lead is 2.5-3% antimony.


    **scrapyards pay more for shiny cores what's the best way to clean the cores after "smelting" the lead out???

    I found that using BOTH pine sawdust AND wax get more lead out of the jackets.
    To clean up the cores, I would try putting them in a cement mixer with some water and gravel.

  8. #28
    Boolit Buddy SoonerEd's Avatar
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    Thanks BigSlug...that was a useful read.

  9. #29
    Boolit Buddy SoonerEd's Avatar
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    There are lots of clay target fragments from them being shot in the berm as targets. I pick most out as they turn to black goo. Hopefully I can get started in three weeks.

  10. #30
    Boolit Buddy SoonerEd's Avatar
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    This is the setup my friend has but he burnt up his mixer on 15,000 lbs. I'm going to see if I buy him a new one if we can clean it up at his place with him helping me. He's got some baskets attached to the mixer that help with the cleaning. Not sure how they work as they were on the ground. Maybe I'll get to see them in action.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilderness View Post
    Agree.

    You might be surprised at what those jackets are worth.

    On a much smaller scale, I use a collander type arrangement to take off the jackets so I don't have to skim them. The jackets go to the scrap dealer along with the accumulated skimmings/dross from my bullet making. Specifically I use a tin with perforated bottom that fits inside the lead pot. When all is melted, I raise and shake the tin, now containing more or less clean jackets, and clean the dirt and dross off the melt as a separate operation.
    Nice idear, I'll keep that in mind next smelting...
    Been loading 6.5 CM for ELD, learning to load Mosin Nagant & .308/7.62x51
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    Lyman mold #429421 "Elmer Keith" style 255gr, Dbl Cavity; [for .44 Mag, S&W 629, Alox lubed]
    Lyman #356402, 9mm, Sngl Cavity [for a friend]
    LEE #90282, 12ga Drive Key, 7/8oz Slug [for: Son's 3-Gun]
    LEE #90349, 452-255RF, 6 Cavity [for 45 Colt & 45 ACP; Alox lubed]
    LEE #90697, 453-200RF, ditto

  12. #32
    Boolit Buddy Walstr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conditor22 View Post
    https://www.rmrbullets.com/shop/rmr-...nnel-hardness/

    Casting Lead from RMR Jacketed Bullet Cores (approximately 10 Brinnel hardness) This lead is 2.5-3% antimony.


    **scrapyards pay more for shiny cores what's the best way to clean the cores after "smelting" the lead out???

    I found that using BOTH pine sawdust AND wax get more lead out of the jackets.
    Very much agree w/pine sawdust; most excellant and cheap flux, + great for smoking the mold on occasion!
    Been loading 6.5 CM for ELD, learning to load Mosin Nagant & .308/7.62x51
    Caster & CWW / Lead miner.
    Mountain Mold 45-70-405, 80% Meplat, sized .461" dia. for Marlin 1895GS
    Lyman mold #429421 "Elmer Keith" style 255gr, Dbl Cavity; [for .44 Mag, S&W 629, Alox lubed]
    Lyman #356402, 9mm, Sngl Cavity [for a friend]
    LEE #90282, 12ga Drive Key, 7/8oz Slug [for: Son's 3-Gun]
    LEE #90349, 452-255RF, 6 Cavity [for 45 Colt & 45 ACP; Alox lubed]
    LEE #90697, 453-200RF, ditto

  13. #33
    Boolit Buddy SoonerEd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GregLaROCHE View Post
    To clean up the cores, I would try putting them in a cement mixer with some water and gravel.
    The friend that’s giving it to me said if I’d buy a cement mixer he would help me clean it at his property and he keeps the mixer. Also he has 2 five gallon buckets 90% full of reclaimed shot that is mostly 7 1/2 and 8 he said just needs to washed. So depending on how deformed might get 200-250 lbs of shot for close range shooting.

    Another friend is building me a 200 lb bottom pour smelter with double jet burners along with 10 angle iron 3 gang molds at 1 1/2 lbs per ingot. So, once I get the lead cleaned I’ll be able to process 200 lbs per batch while running 3 other setups with harbor freight Dutch ovens at 50-70 lbs per batch. So might be able to get it all poured into ingots in one very long day. That will be after summer when it cools down.
    Last edited by SoonerEd; 04-28-2021 at 12:01 AM.

  14. #34
    Boolit Buddy SoonerEd's Avatar
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    I appreciate everyone's input.

  15. #35
    Boolit Master WRideout's Avatar
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    You will have yourself an industrial-size operation when all that equipment gets going. Range Scrap is about all I have been using for the past two or three years. My tire dealer provides free wheel weights, but I am hoarding my COWW, since I have an unlimited supply of free lead from the backstop at my club's pistol range.

    I use range lead plus tin for everything I shoot (completely agree with Larry G.). My calibers include 25 auto, 32-20, 38 spl, 357, 9mm Para, 45 ACP and 7.62 Tok. I never had a problem with any of them, and don't know what the hardness of the alloy is. I keep my loads on the mild side. I have had more trouble with alloy being too hard, rather than too soft.

    Congrats on a good score of lead.

    Wayne
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  16. #36
    Boolit Master Garyshome's Avatar
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    Sinkers

  17. #37
    Moderator Emeritus robertbank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Gibson View Post
    That's a pretty good assumption in and of itself. Adding COWW to such RL only adds lead and additional antimony with next to no tin. That only exacerbates the level of antimony. Back in the day when COWWs actually had some tin in them adding COWWs many times worked. Not so much these days though. Adding the 2% tin will make the alloy very similar to COWWs of those days gone by.

    How "complex" can adding 2% tin be? Using 10 lbs of range alloy and adding 2% tin is simply adding 3.2 ounces of tin....... Based on my experience of using a lot of range lead from jacketed bullets adding the 2% tin works out extremely well giving bullets that cast quite well at 700 - 725 degrees and have a close to 95/2.5/2.5 content (yes I have had such alloy tested). Such bullets cast of the RL + the 2% tin will perform quite well in all calibers the OP mentions.
    Larry forgive me for asking but what are we trying to achieve here? My WW alloy I assume is the same is what you get in the South. Air cooled it works great in my 38spl, 45acp and 45 Colt. Water quenched they work in my 9MM, .357mag, 44mag and several rifle cartridges with and without GC's depending in caliber. I toss in all my RL bullets and still have some lead from Plated Casings. The lead from FMJ/Plated bullets is to hard for my Remington Percussion balls and bullets so I assume the cores are harder than pure lead. I don't know what WW alloy was like 50 years ago but in the last 30 the weights I get don't seem to have changed noticeably. The bullets that have had my 1-3 mix shoot just as well so in my mind no harm no fall. Leading is not an issue nor is performance. I now get enough pure lead WW from WW stick on to satisfy my Percussion revolver needs and have a lifetime supply of WW alloy. I will note your input and toss a half pound of 50 - 50 solder into the mix. If nothing else the added tin will help with mold fill out.

    Take Care

    Bob
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  18. #38
    Boolit Grand Master fredj338's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoonerEd View Post
    I rechecked the lead harness after they had seven days to age harden. The BHN tested between 11.0-11.8. So, that should be good for most target pistol loads.
    How are you checking bhn? If you are PC the bullets, even 8bhn will be gtg in 9 or 40 minor, certainly 45acp & 38/44sp. My range scrap,come out about 10bhn. I use it as is for most of my 9 & 40 minor & 45acp, yes i PC.
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  19. #39
    Boolit Grand Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by robertbank View Post
    Larry forgive me for asking but what are we trying to achieve here? My WW alloy I assume is the same is what you get in the South. Air cooled it works great in my 38spl, 45acp and 45 Colt. Water quenched they work in my 9MM, .357mag, 44mag and several rifle cartridges with and without GC's depending in caliber. I toss in all my RL bullets and still have some lead from Plated Casings. The lead from FMJ/Plated bullets is to hard for my Remington Percussion balls and bullets so I assume the cores are harder than pure lead. I don't know what WW alloy was like 50 years ago but in the last 30 the weights I get don't seem to have changed noticeably. The bullets that have had my 1-3 mix shoot just as well so in my mind no harm no fall. Leading is not an issue nor is performance. I now get enough pure lead WW from WW stick on to satisfy my Percussion revolver needs and have a lifetime supply of WW alloy. I will note your input and toss a half pound of 50 - 50 solder into the mix. If nothing else the added tin will help with mold fill out.

    Take Care

    Bob
    Bob

    In his first post SoonerEd basically asked. "I know I can mix it with COWW. So that is not my question. My question is what bullets, velocity, pressure would this be good for lead around 7.5 BHN. I load for many calibers in pistol and rifle (over 30). …………. Any guidance on what this alloy my be useful for not mixed with other alloy is much appreciated."

    Then in a subsequent post SoonerEd replied; “It is mostly cores from jacketed bullets.

    Thus I responded with what I would do to answer the question. Yes, I did counter your suggestion but so did SoonerEd in his first post as he seemingly did not wanted another option to adding COWWs when he stated "I know I can mix it with COWW. So that is not my question". That is what I what trying to "achieve".....just tell him what I would do to get an excellent alloy with little effort other than adding COWWs. That's all, no sense getting a wedgie over it. I never said adding COWWs would not give a suitable alloy for the pistol bullets you mention. However notice the OP also referenced "rifle (over 30)" bullets. I simply believe an alloy (95/2.5/2.5), similar to old original COWWs, would do better in that application.
    Last edited by Larry Gibson; 04-30-2021 at 11:20 PM.
    Larry Gibson

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  20. #40
    Boolit Master facetious's Avatar
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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last year I melted some RS that I had collected over a few years and wile I had use of a friends cooker I mixed in 2% of pewter to get a 160 lb's all the same . I plan to use it in .38/.357 mostly. For fun I cast some LBT 150-OWC's . Half I AC'ed and half I WW'ed . After ageing for a few months I put nose to nose in a big vice and pressed the WW'ed in to the AC'ed . So I know I can harden them .

    Click image for larger version. 

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    For fun I had some of the same boolit cast in the late 90's that are from a mix of 5lb's lino a lb. of tin and the rest WW's to make about a 100 lbs. I had WW'ed them so I put one in the vice with a WD'ed RS and pressed it in to the RS. I'm thinking that WW'ed RS mite be close to AC'ed WW's.

    The last pic is RS to RS the middle one is the old WW'ed in to the RS WW'ed . didn't come out in the right order.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 20210222_124846.jpg  
    Last edited by facetious; 05-07-2021 at 02:30 AM.
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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check