Win Model 60A Mystery?

[NEKVT]

Wondering if anyone has ever seen a 60A with this sight configuration? A search of books and the internet over the years hasn't shown any pictures or mention of the combination. I posted it on Rimfire Central about a year ago and a member very knowledgeable about Winchester RF's had some good info about the sights but had never seen any reference to them being on this model before so the conclusion was it is a mystery. I checked over there a couple times since to see if any new comments might have pointed to another sighting but didn't see any.



My father got this rifle in the mid to late 30's when he was a teen with no details ever mentioned about the acquisition. I know he didn't add these sights because he wasn't a gun enthusiast or tinkerer - this was the only firearm he ever owned. The fellow on RC knew exactly when these rear and front sights were designed for Winchester in the mid 30's and were used on other models but not the 60A. He asked if the sights had patent numbers on them but are marked "Pat. Pending" which shows these were early versions, probably not obtained and switched out at a later date. He also noted they do appear to have been on the rifle for a long time. And it doesn't make sense that someone would buy this basic model and upgrade the sights when there were target model versions of the 60A and other models with this sight available but located closer to the receiver where you would expect to find a peep sight not at the typical rear sight position where these are. (But the rear peep sight in this position works very well with this front hood matching the diameter of the peep at this sight radius for a nice clear sight picture - coincidence?)

I can only think of two scenarios of how this example may have come to be: an employee built one for himself using the newly available sights or Winchester produced a run of these for a dealer or retailer. Anyone ever seen another 60A with these sights or have any other ideas how it may have come about?

[Bigslug]

According to Nick Stroebel's Old Gunsights, that's a # 96-A or 96-B rear sight which are listed for the Model 68 and 69 rifles respectively.

Stroebel's book also lists the 97-A Front Ramped Hood for the 67, 68, and 69 rifles.

The Standard Catolog of Winchester Fireams has a pic of one of those rear sights on a model 67, which I think from my travels is a relatively common thing.

The 60 became the 67 and then the 67A. Probably was never any reason to change sight mounting systems. The first of the new sights arrived at the tail end of 60 production, or a straggler 60 left forgotten in a corner of the factory for a couple years - either seems likely.

EDIT TO ADD: Given that these were REALLY basic rifles sold at the lowest possible price points, without even serial numbers because the law didn't require it until years after the last ones were made, it's probably safe to venture that Winchester assumed their buyers were not going to be excessively picky about features, and meeting demand would be the primary goal. If the source for Sight A was lagging behind, and the one for Sight B had delivered a surplus, it isn't hard to fathom a run of Sight B equipped models went out the door, with "Make sure they see Winchesters for every budget on the rack" being the primary sales tool. I wouldn't count on there being a whole lot of documentation on transitional or emergency changes made to the bottom end of the product line - the folks actually reading sales brochures and making comparisons would have been shopping for sexier wares.

[NEKVT]

Thanks for the info. It has been my contention all along that it came from the factory like that. It had been refinished so even if it could be confirmed a rare sample of the 60A it wouldn't make much of a difference and it's not going anywhere except to family anyway.

My personal story with it is a bit odd though. I had last seen it when I was about 5 yrs old around 1959 when my father shot it off our picnic table at a spoon stuck in a dirt pile. In 1969 our basement flooded from unusually heavy spring rains. While cleaning up the mess I found it under a mattress leaning against a wall where apparently my mother hid it some time in the past ten years. It had been under water and was orange. I cleaned up the rust and cold blued it and refinished the stock. The bore was in good shape probably protected by the wax coating used on the old ammo. I shot it for a couple years and took some small game with it. Then it developed a hair trigger from wear to the sear and contact point under the bolt. A gunsmith built up the worn bolt area and it was good to go again but I didn't shoot it much after that having moved on to a 10/22 at that point and adding a Model 69A since. I do plan to take it hunting again before handing it down. Still a mystery but those sights are neat and the combo works much better than I would imagine the stock ones did.

[Bigslug]

"What's the barrel length?" and "Does the crown look stock?" would be a reasonable means of determining originality. I have two 67's - a long and a short - and both of them are dovetailed for the front sight. If you have a standard length, unmolested muzzle, and there's no dovetail, odds are that's the front sight it was born with. A hooded sight is a bit of a natural to combo with a peep rear, so they likely came together.

[NEKVT]

The barrel is 23" which was one of the 60A standard lengths and has the factory crown.

[pietro]

My personal story with it is a bit odd though.

I found it under a mattress leaning against a wall where apparently my mother hid it some time in the past ten years.

Yep, women uncomfortable around firearms will do that stuff...…….

Once upon a time, my sister hid her husband's only gun (a .22 rifle) outside, under their front porch.....

After he finally found it, years later, it wasn't even good enough to serve as a tomato stake.

.

[303Guy]

The barrel is 23" which was one of the 60A standard lengths and has the factory crown.

Interesting factory crown. I thought all crowns from back then were rounded with something like a 15 degree crown to bore interface.

Like this.

[NEKVT]

Yes 303Guy that would be a safe assumption but this is from Rimfire Central titled WIN_60_23_INCH_CROWN_DETAILS. BigSlug's M67 crowns probably look like this as well.

[Bigslug]

A couple of my carbine's front end:




That's a 67A. Not sure what kind of span there was between your gun and mine. The rifle is a bit more buried and less accessible in the safe, but feeling the muzzle through the silicone gun sock it lives in, it seems to be the exact same profile.

[NEKVT]

Well it looks like they brought the M67 crown up to standards as one of the changes from M60 and carried it on from there. My M69A has a similar crown and is from late in the long run for that model. But comparing my 60A to the picture from RC I think we can say it was stock for that model and time period.