Question on Cast Slugs

[longbow]

Yup! I do the same.

Coincidentally many years ago I was getting back into slug shooting and made some moulds. When I went out to range test there was almost 4' of snow on the range. some slugs shot well and some didn't but I didn't know why for the most part.

Many wads were found laying on the snow so that helped but in the spring when the snow melted I found lots of my slugs! That told me a lot of what was wrong with some slugs... collapsed or distorted skirts and wads blown into hollow cavities (both plastic wads and hard card wads.

Soft lead distorts/obturates quite a lot but even thick skirted ACWW skirts distort/obturate.

This made me a believer in filling hollow bases.

Longbow

[W.R.Buchanan]

Leon: Petander lives in Finland. Their summer lasts for about 2 weeks. It is snowing the rest of the time. Bring your Longees !

Randy

[Vettepilot]

So, my new Russian, Italian Azot style wads came in. They call them "Special Wads". These are the ones that have been revised.

They do NOT have that troublesome "step" at the bottom of where the wad inserts into the slug that I've been struggling with.

Vettepilot

[longbow]

Don't those moulds come with a pin (or pin is available) for the screw in from the nose for using the brush wads as an option? Universal pin?

If so then it would be interesting to see how the Azot wad compares to the brush wad with the same slug.

Good that your "step" issue looks like it is solved. Could you post a pic? I'm curious. Like I said, there was no way the Paradox slugs I was given were going to seat down over that. Not sure which company produced the mould though... Svarog? AS? other? While several slug designs appear to be the same or at lease very close, are there differences? Do those old wads fit one design and not others?

Longbow

[Vettepilot]

Well, my molds are not accessible at the moment, but from memory...

One of the Russian molds is specifically designed to have a wad screwed to it. I will avoid names of the slugs/molds, as the names are all over the map, and quite confusing, then there are differing core pins that confuse the issue even further!

The hollow point Russian slug, and/or the segmented slug, is the one you screw a wad to, using either their wads, or various wads from here in the USA.

The three-banded flat nose slug, most often called "Paradox", and the narrow two-banded pent roof slug, often called the "Italian" slug, are the ones that use the wad we're speaking of that press fits into the slug. These slugs have an internal cavity with a cast-in post that accept this special wad. The wad is variously called the Azot, or Italian, or Gualandi, by many, or "Special Tail Wad" by the Russians.

The one I have been working on is the pent roof, two narrow band slug. It looks a lot like the "DGS" slugs offered by BPI. It would be difficult to attach a screw on wad to this due to the cast-in post inside the slug cavity, though that could be worked around. The various slug molds come with core pins for different options, (weights, configurations, etc.), plus they can be ordered separately.

I'll try to get some pics of the wads up later today.

Vettepilot

[longbow]

Okay then... I just took a look. AS-Molds and TATV both offer the pointy Gualandi style slug but only full HB pin or the pin you mention for the post/Azot wad.

Svarog shows the same slug design and with a universal pin and they say standard wads can be used. I think it is the universal pin that allows a screw from the nose through th the wad... brush wad, like used for the Zverboy, Botfly, etc.

https://en.svaroghunt.ru/product-pag...andi-12-kalibr

Not sure I'm right here but I think so. The same universal pin is offered for the Paradox and some other HB slugs at all three vendors.

If I were to buy one of these moulds I wouldn't want to have to buy proprietary wads. But that's just me.

Longbow

[Vettepilot]

Yeah. The propietary wads are definitely a hassle, but I figured worth it to finally get an accurate, home-cast DIY slug with very good performance and of course, price. Just bite the bullet so to speak, and go ahead and order a bunch of wads. I checked, and could not find them anywhere besides Russia or Reloaders Network. I contacted BPI, and they won't sell the wads, preferring instead to sell their expensive DGS slugs that use them as a unit. (I have kind of a Love/Hate thing with BPI--> don't approve of some of their sales tactics. Makes me not mind buying Russian!)

But the screw on wad is a good option with the slugs that accept it.

I really don't know why I still mess with the Lee slugs now that I have these nice Russian designed slugs. Just stubborn I guess!!

;~)

Vettepilot

[Petander]

Thanks for the link, Longbow.

I have done all my Svarog shopping via Ebay, I see now that they have those "brush wads," in 20 gauge. To screw on the slugs. I have a box from Siarm at the post office, I ordered some other wads to try...

Maybe it's time to bite the bullet and stock up with those AZOT:s as well. I think I bought only 500 with the mold...

[longbow]

If you like links to slugs...

https://as-molds.com/
https://tatvcanada.com/
https://en.svaroghunt.ru/product-pag...i-universalniy

The slugs look the same but moulds seem to be different... or at least some so not sure if these companies are related or what.

Look at that last link... it is Svarog and shows the universal core pin for the Italian slug for use with a brush wad so yes, I wasn't dreaming, it is an option.

I like the AS-Molds series of full bore Foster slug moulds which I don't see any of the other vendors offering.

Longbow

[Vettepilot]

Mine are all from Svarog. The molds are fine. The other manufacturer is AS Molds, as you've mentioned. The AS Mold offerings seem a touch more refined in execution, but I have no problem with mine from Svarog.

AS Molds has some other interesting molds for boolits for rifle and pistol, with some having multiple core pin options, including some for hollow points.

TATV is just another importer like Reloaders Network, but based in Canada, and importing from AS Molds. Reloaders Net handles Svarog. TATV told me he's having troubles getting stuff in; sometimes taking months.

TATV, Reloaders Network I believe, and You-Tuber FortuneCookie45LC all have interesting videos up about these Russian slugs.

EDIT TO ADD: While Reloaders Network does handle the Svarog stuff, they carry a pretty good markup and I've always just dealt direct with Svarog. No problems so far, but shipping is now super high due to Covid. Reloaders Network only carried limited stock, so they'll be passing along the new, higher shipping costs as well...

Vettepilot

[Vettepilot]

You might want to hold up before ordering wads. I will try to get some pics and more pertinent info up later today. If not, then tomorrow for sure.

Got a personal problem I'm dealing with here at the moment... sorry.

Vettepilot

[Blood Trail]

Leon: Petander lives in Finland. Their summer lasts for about 2 weeks. It is snowing the rest of the time. Bring your Longees !

Randy

Sounds like my kinda place.


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[Blood Trail]

I’ve compared the the white Azot wads to the new red ones. Haven’t seated any lead on them, but they look identical.


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[Petander]

Leon: Petander lives in Finland. Their summer lasts for about 2 weeks. It is snowing the rest of the time. Bring your Longees !

Randy

In addition to that, it is 4.36 pm now and too dark to shoot at anything if you intend to hit.

It's raining... I'd rather have the snow but if often rains until Christmas.

And yes,one of those 12 gauge Svarogs came with three core pins.

[longbow]

Most of Finland is north of 60° so yeah pretty far north!

I used to live in Yellowknife NWT which is north of 60°. Its a lot colder there though. First Halloween there it was -30°C and yes, dark early! By December we got about 2 hrs. of sunlight a day with the sun scooting across just above the horizon. Probably just like where you are.

Longbow

[Petander]

I'm at 62°N. Like Yukon.

[longbow]

You are far north but the proximity to ocean must moderate your weather some. In Yellowknife we'd be into the low -30°C to - 40°C by December. Coldest I saw was -46°C.

I suspect BT might not like it that cold! I didn't mind the cold that much but -46° was COLD!

But I digress and this is thread wander. It does bring up another point of discussion though. I wonder how the wads perform at extreme cold temperatures compared to summer temperatures? I noticed in Yellowknife that about -38°C many plastics became quite brittle where they were just stiff at a few degrees warmer. Gear oil would turn to jelly at about the same temperature. Not sure if there is a transition temperature for petroleum products but low -30's seemed to be where many plastic/rubber things got brittle. That could have a significant effect on cushion leg performance.

Longbow

[Vettepilot]

Ok guys. Everything I know about the Russian slug wads...

First, I'm thinking my concern about the step on the wads is irrelevant. I'm going to just load them so that the step is up against the slug, but not try to seat it inside the slug cavity. They seem to shoot fine that way, and from what I can tell that is how most people are doing it.

I was told that the Russians were having problems keeping their wad making machines running due to lack of parts, or something. Someone on a forum told me that. Svarog told me they were doing a slight revision to the wads. They said that it was a minor change.

So when I suddenly found the wads on E-bay, I quickly ordered 300, thinking they were the revised wads. They were not from Svarog, as I had ordered before, but instead from a Russian source calling themselves "BulletMold" on Ebay. They were quite expensive, at 33 cents a wad including shipping. This was far more than I had paid Svarog before. (About 2 years ago?)

I received the wads recently, and they are quite different from the ones I had previously gotten from Svarog. They are the same style, and will work, but they are definitely different.

Subsequently, Svarog told me they now had the wads available again, but only from their website. So I went to the website, and ordered 600 more. These cost me about 18 cents a piece, with shipping. There's a remark on the website that only one form of shipping is available now, due to Covid. The cost to ship 600 wads was 86 bucks!! Again, with shipping that amount, (600), cost me 18 cents a piece.

Here is the website listing, with pic: https://en.svaroghunt.ru/product-pag...bilizator-puli

Now the question is, which wad is which??? I don't know if the red wads shown on the website are what I will actually receive, or if the ones coming are going to be like the 300 I bought from "BulletMold" that are so different. The ones from BulletMold do not have the same "step" on the wad that I had been worrying about. But in other ways, I somewhat prefer the original wads from Svarog; they seem stronger in the obturation cup area. However, the cushion zone, might be a bit stronger/more stable with these from "BulletMold".

Anyway, we won't know more for sure until this next order comes in from Svarog themselves. I'll let ya know!

Below are pictures showing the original Svarog "Special Tail Wad", and the new one from 'BulletMold". I had a hard time trying to photo the details and differences, but there they are.

At any rate, I have about 1000 of the original wads left, 300 of the ones from BulletMold, and 600 more coming straight from Svarog of a style/revision that remains to be seen. Almost 2000 wads for these style Russian slugs will keep me busy for a good long time...

EDIT TO ADD: Someone will notice; the slug is a reject, but the only one I had handy for the pics.

Vettepilot

[Blood Trail]

Ok guys. Everything I know about the Russian slug wads...

First, I'm thinking my concern about the step on the wads is irrelevant. I'm going to just load them so that the step is up against the slug, but not try to seat it inside the slug cavity. They seem to shoot fine that way, and from what I can tell that is how most people are doing it.

I was told that the Russians were having problems keeping their wad making machines running due to lack of parts, or something. Someone on a forum told me that. Svarog told me they were doing a slight revision to the wads. They said that it was a minor change.

So when I suddenly found the wads on E-bay, I quickly ordered 300, thinking they were the revised wads. They were not from Svarog, as I had ordered before, but instead from a Russian source calling themselves "BulletMold" on Ebay. They were quite expensive, at 33 cents a wad including shipping. This was far more than I had paid Svarog before. (About 2 years ago?)

I received the wads recently, and they are quite different from the ones I had previously gotten from Svarog. They are the same style, and will work, but they are definitely different.

Subsequently, Svarog told me they now had the wads available again, but only from their website. So I went to the website, and ordered 600 more. These cost me about 18 cents a piece, with shipping. There's a remark on the website that only one form of shipping is available now, due to Covid. The cost to ship 600 wads was 86 bucks!! Again, with shipping that amount, (600), cost me 18 cents a piece.

Here is the website listing, with pic: https://en.svaroghunt.ru/product-pag...bilizator-puli

Now the question is, which wad is which??? I don't know if the red wads shown on the website are what I will actually receive, or if the ones coming are going to be like the 300 I bought from "BulletMold" that are so different. The ones from BulletMold do not have the same "step" on the wad that I had been worrying about. But in other ways, I somewhat prefer the original wads from Svarog; they seem stronger in the obturation cup area. However, the cushion zone, might be a bit stronger/more stable with these from "BulletMold".

Anyway, we won't know more for sure until this next order comes in from Svarog themselves. I'll let ya know!

Below are pictures showing the original Svarog "Special Tail Wad", and the new one from 'BulletMold". I had a hard time trying to photo the details and differences, but there they are.

At any rate, I have about 1000 of the original wads left, 300 of the ones from BulletMold, and 600 more coming straight from Svarog of a style/revision that remains to be seen. Almost 2000 wads for these style Russian slugs will keep me busy for a good long time...

EDIT TO ADD: Someone will notice; the slug is a reject, but the only one I had handy for the pics.

Vettepilot

Yeah, AS Bullet Molds. They make awesome molds.


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[Vettepilot]

Yeah, AS Bullet Molds. They make awesome molds.

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I think pretty soon I'll order one or more of their rifle or pistol molds. They look interesting. Might be fun to try the "Luger" molds. With the different core pins, possibly one for my 9mm pistol, another core pin for my 9mm carbine, and also for my 350 Legend...

Vettepilot