Gage Pins?

[TrxR]

Anyone here have experience with zz class gage pins? If so is there a simple way to out a taper on the end without a lathe? Could this be done with a grinder or possibly belt sander?

Thanks

[M-Tecs]

Gage pin material is normally 52100 bearing steel heat treated to Rockwell C 60-62. That is too hard for normal lather operations. A tool post grinder or a Tool and Cutter Grinder will do a professional looking job and yes you can belt sand them.

[uscra112]

Why would one want to?

[TrxR]

Why would one want to?

To use them for applications they are not designed for as in using them to expand necks of brass to control neck tension.

[uscra112]

NOE Molds is just one of several vendors who have custom expander plugs for use in the Lee "Universal Expander" die body.

Or you can make your own for a Lee sizer die by reworking Lee decapping stems.

If you have a lathe and a decent micrometer, it's easy to make custom expanders for the Lyman M-die from all-thread.

https://www.mcmaster.com/threaded-ro...s-grade-b7-10/

[uscra112]

I've done all of the above. Fastest way now is making them from 9/16 round for the "Universal Expander" die body.

Along with other tools - here's a tool kit I made for a friend who has a rifle chambered for the long-obsolete Stevens .28-30-120 cartridge. An expander, a neck sizer, and a seater. The expander had to be very long to assure that it didn't cock the shell sideways and expand it asymmetrically. Hence the tubular spacer next to it.

[JSnover]

I did something like that a while back and didn't really care for the results (the suggestions in the other comments are much better) but an easy way to taper a short round stock is to chuck it into a hand drill and spin it against a belt sander or bench grinder. Check the chuck every few seconds - they like to loosen up when you do this.

[TrxR]

This is for bottle neck cases like 6br and 308 or 284 win. Alot of guys in the benchrest and fclass game are using gage pins in either a custom die from Porter Precision or using a collet bullet puller to hold the gage pin. The reason behind it is that gage pins are easy and cheap to find and can be got in .0005" increments to get the exact neck tension they want.

[uscra112]

Well, that answers one question I had, which was how to hold them.

ZZ pins come in + an - increments from the basic dimension, so you can collect them in increments of about .0002".

Seems to me that you don't need that level of precision until you have a lot of other characteristics under control, such as brass temper and neck wall thickness and concentricity.

A drill motor and a belt sander will do to put a small taper on them.

[TrxR]

Well, that answers one question I had, which was how to hold them.

ZZ pins come in + an - increments from the basic dimension, so you can collect them in increments of about .0002".

Seems to me that you don't need that level of precision until you have a lot of other characteristics under control, such as brass temper and neck wall thickness and concentricity.

A drill motor and a belt sander will do to put a small taper on them.

Neck wall and concentricity is takens care of as these will be neck turned and fire formed brass.

Here is a video kind of explaining their use.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FX9zMgY5kt8

[B R Shooter]

Sinclair sells expanding pins and holder for their neck turner. I have made about twice as many myself to fit my needs. I use 3/8 W1 (the holder is 3/8) turn, taper and polish.

[TrxR]

Sinclair sells expanding pins and holder for their neck turner. I have made about twice as many myself to fit my needs. I use 3/8 W1 (the holder is 3/8) turn, taper and polish.

I currently have a PMA expander body and 6mm to 30cal neck expander for doing 30br as well as the PMA neck turner. I was looking to use the gage pins as you can get them in pretty much any size you need and are reasonably priced. With the actual expanders from say sinclairs your pretty limited in the sizes available . As for using 3/8w1 its a good idea if you have access to a lathe but i dont.

I think ill pick a couple up to give them a try.

[Chill Wills]

You may know this but, the expanded brass necks will spring back to some degree. Also, as mentioned above, annealing and the state of annealed brass will also effect the degree of spring.
I make my own expanders so I can control exactly the finished neck size. You don't need Rc hardness 60+ for the job. Even 12L14 steel will wear well and outlast most of us.

Please let us know how it goes. I am always learning.

[TrxR]

You may know this but, the expanded brass necks will spring back to some degree. Also, as mentioned above, annealing and the state of annealed brass will also effect the degree of spring.
I make my own expanders so I can control exactly the finished neck size. You don't need Rc hardness 60+ for the job. Even 12L14 steel will wear well and outlast most of us.

Please let us know how it goes. I am always learning.

The spring back is the exact reason being able to get them in .0005" increments is nice.

I know I dont need them as hard as the gage pins but where I dont have access to lathe to make my own .

There is a company (21st century) that makes mandrels in these steps specificaly for reloading but they want 20.00 a piece for them where a gage pin is only around 4.00

[B R Shooter]

I currently have a PMA expander body and 6mm to 30cal neck expander for doing 30br as well as the PMA neck turner. I was looking to use the gage pins as you can get them in pretty much any size you need and are reasonably priced. With the actual expanders from say sinclairs your pretty limited in the sizes available . As for using 3/8w1 its a good idea if you have access to a lathe but i dont.

I think ill pick a couple up to give them a try.

If you are going to play this game to the degree you are after, you can't buy everything that comes to mind, as in these pins. Even a benchtop lathe would give you the ability to make expanders in every size you can imagine.

[TrxR]

Well the lathe will definitely have to wait as even a cheap benchtop lathe around here is well over a $1000.00 and id rather spend that on some bullet dies.

[TrxR]

If you are going to play this game to the degree you are after, you can't buy everything that comes to mind, as in these pins. Even a benchtop lathe would give you the ability to make expanders in every size you can imagine.

If i was going to invest in a lathe do you haveva recommendation on what to look for? I would rather buy once in something like that and get something i could chamber my own barrels on as well.

[kenton]

Scotch-brite deburring wheels and a hand drill would allow you to very slowly remove material, anywhere from a few tenths of a thousandth to a couple thousandths. If you need more than that, a belt sander followed by a deburring wheel would give you a very smooth finish.

something like this:
https://bindingsource.com/scotch-bri...-x-1-in-9s-fin

Of course getting into one from less than $50 may be a challenge, so it may be a no go.

[ulav8r]

An import 7x12 to a 9x18 will do pistol barrels easily but for rifle work look for a 10x24 or larger. On the larger lathes also look for a through headstock bore of 1 3/8" or more. A 12x36 that weighs at least 1500 lbs would be ideal.

[B R Shooter]

If you can find a Southbend Heavy 10 in good shape, they are hard to beat for barrel work. But there are many others. Look seriously at the width of the headstock, spindle hole size, and NOT a thread mounted chuck. You don't need fancy 6-jaw set-true chucks, a scroll 3 jaw for misc. work and an independent 4 jaw for barrels. Grizzly sells a couple lathes set up for gunsmithing, a decent value for the money, and it's new. Buying used takes a good eye to look for problems.