can you actually deflare without crushing front driving band?

[35remington]

Let’s hope we need equivalent to groove diameter for our bullet or not more than 0.002” over that.

A bullet that is bore diameter or not more than 0.002” over bore diameter would be hopelessly inaccurate.

Please pardon my terminology Nazism but for some reason it is very trendy to say bore diameter when we mean groove diameter. I see that lots of places including other forums.

I’m guessing because “bore” sounds cooler. Again, pardon my terminology Nazism but bore diameter and groove diameter have distinctly different meanings and are different parts of the barrel interior. Apologies for the Webster diversion.

[onelight]

Your absolutely right I should have said grove diameter . Not trying to be " cool " to old and practical for that.

[35remington]

I readily admit I am speculating about why people do it. Just puzzled as to why it is common.

[44MAG#1]

ORIGINAL POSTER save all the drama, get an RCBS Taper Crimp die and FIRMLY taper crimp your ammo. Go out and shoot and have fun. If you ammo functions well and shoots well, forget the minutia.

[alamogunr]

I almost wish I had never found this thread. I was happy loading cast in .45 ACP on the Dillon 550. My procedure was to set every thing up prior to the 4th station(crimp) so that OAL was per the load data for the boolit I was using(usually H&G 68 type). The crimp die was screwed down until the round fit a "Maximum Cartridge Gauge" that I bought from Midway way back when they sent out a circular every month. The set has 5 gauges, .41 mag, .44 mag, .45 Colt, 9mm and .45 ACP. The only two I've ever used are the 9mm & .45 ACP. The other cartridges I just measure case OAL with a caliper.

After assuring that the loaded round fits the gauge, I make sure it will "plunk" in the barrel of the gun I'm loading for. Or, all if these are to be inventory rounds for use with any .45 ACP. That is rare. Usually I'll do a couple of 1911's and quit there.

I might measure the crimp to see if it is close to .470 or maybe less. If it is more, I might give the die a slight turn down.

I can also assure you that my shooting skill won't show me a difference in the crimp measurement. I've gotten too shaky to depend on shooting to determine the accuracy of either loads or guns. Wish I had gotten into this game a lot earlier.

EDIT! I should have mentioned that I depend on the size die to give me sufficient tension on the loaded boolit to keep it in place in the magazine while shooting.

[44MAG#1]

Sometimes threads make one wish they had never clicked on them.
To find out they have been it doing all wrong for years according to the "EXPERTS". Even though one has been getting good results for years doing what they are doing.
Make one wonder doesn't it?

[M-Tecs]

Sometimes threads make one wish they had never clicked on them.
To find out they have been it doing all wrong for years according to the "EXPERTS". Even though one has been getting good results for years doing what they are doing.
Make one wonder doesn't it?

So where did ANYONE on this thread stated you are doing it wrong????????

The amount of crimp can effect accuracy significantly if you are looking for competition level accuracy. It does vary by bullet type and weight. Light loads with lighter softer cast or swaged bullet may need more crimp for consistent ignition.

Some excellent info here:

https://www.bullseyeforum.net/t15879...crimp+accuracy

"From the Guy (John Giles) that invented the Taper Crimp Die..."

https://starreloaders.com/forum/inde....0;attach=3383

If you are happy with your results great. On the other hand some might be interested in the techniques that some of the best shooters in the world are using to achieve their results. Some might even find helpful to improve their own results. Some may not be interested in possible improvement. That is their choice.

Personally I like learning and self improvement.

[44MAG#1]

I used to have a shooting buddy that was a High Master class NRA Bullseye shooter. He loaded on a progressive loader, taper crimped pretty stout and used Bullseye and a H&G #68 or a close copy there of. He just knew how to shoot which is the key in reality.
Implication of being wrong probably would have been a better term.

[alamogunr]

So where did ANYONE on this thread stated you are doing it wrong????????



If you are happy with your results great. On the other hand some might be interested in the techniques that some of the best shooters in the world are using to achieve their results. Some might even find helpful to improve there own results.

M-Tecs, I don't disagree at all with your post. I found the link to John Giles letter interesting. I know very little about the history of reloading aside from the sometimes fanciful stories about buffalo hunters reloading by firelight each night.

I do have multiple sets of dies for several cartridges that I bought in order to have a separate crimp die. I hated spending an inordinate amount of time trying to adjust the seat/crimp die. When I got the Dillon 550 I realized that there was a relatively easy, inexpensive way around that problem. The Redding T-7 just made it easier.

[M-Tecs]

When you fully understand the effects of each operation or component change you can make an educated decision on if it's important to your end goals or not. When I load for 1,000 yard F-Class I use different components and techiquice than I do for my cowboy action loads.

My cowboy action loads only need to function since accuracy requirements are also zero. Mostly use reject bullets and brass that's on it last legs for cowboy action. For cowboy action 6" at 25 yards is more than adequate. For 50 yard Bullseye pistol or 1,000 yard F-Class not so much.

Frankly I do not understand not wanting to learn but each to their own.

[44MAG#1]

"Frankly I do not understand not wanting to learn but each to their own."

We all have our own ways.

[M-Tecs]

I used to have a shooting buddy that was a High Master class NRA Bullseye shooter. He loaded on a progressive loader, taper crimped pretty stout and used Bullseye and a H&G #68 or a close copy there of. He just knew how to shoot which is the key in reality.
Implication of being wrong probably would have been a better term.

I load all my long range competition ammunition on a Dillon Super 1050. I normally don't start weighting charges until 600 yard plus loads. With proper technique 3/8" MOA is easily achievable. With improper technique 1 1/2 to 2 MOA will be the end result.

[alamogunr]

Are my posts being interpreted as me not wanting to learn?

[M-Tecs]

Are my posts being interpreted as me not wanting to learn?

Nope I read your post as stating you read about some different techniques that may or may not be something you want to try. I very much appreciated your posts. That is the definition of learning and that is why most folks are on this forum IMHO. in some cases learning is learning what not to do.

While I did not I am not so sure about this one???

Sometimes threads make one wish they had never clicked on them.
To find out they have been it doing all wrong for years according to the "EXPERTS". Even though one has been getting good results for years doing what they are doing.
Make one wonder doesn't it?

[44MAG#1]

I'll relate a little experiment my buddy and I did one time using his Ransom Rest. And my Bullseye set up 45 Auto. We could have used his Clark Long Slide but didn't. I loaded five rounds each on my Dillon with 3.8, 3.9, 4.0, 4.1 grains of Bulleye with CCI 300's, same brass and same bullets, the bulk #68's he and I used. Bought from Wideners in Johnson City, Tn.
With his Ransom Rest set up at 50 yards (he and I knew how to set up and operate the rest) proceed to put up a 50 yard slow fire full size target and fire a 5 shot group with his 4.0 grain Bullseye powder he used load to see where to precisely put the target to correspond the 10 ring with the group impact. Put up a fresh target and shot the first five of 3.8 grains. Put up a fresh center making sure the witness lines corresponded and fired the 3.9 grain load. Did the same thing for the remaining 4.0 and 4.1 loads.
19 of the 20 were WELL within the 10 ring on the 50 yards slowfire targets. (Could have been a bad bullet. Too late to care now) 3.375 inch outside diameter of the white line circle on a 50 yard slowfire official target as close as I could measure is the 10 ring. No weigh matched bullets, no visually inspected bullets just reach in and get one and seat it. I kept those targets for years to keep me grounded in reality that the shooter is what makes or breaks handgun accuracy. Loads yes but the shooter is the main thing. Anyone of those loads that covered an 8 percent spread from highest to lowest powder charge would have outshot anyone except a phenomenal shooter. And maybe a phenomenal shooter could not have outshot the accuracy of the loads. My buddy always used 4.0 grains of Bullseye but he even had his eyes opened.
Now before I am picked to pieces that was just one test and I am well aware of that fact. Don't need to be reminded of that.
I was told yesterday by a guy at the range that 25 yards is a long way for a pistol . Now I know what has been wrong with my shooting.
BTW. my buddy was the absolutely the best shot with a handgun I have personally seen in my life due to the fact he could shoot anything very well regardless of the recoil. Even my Encores offhand in heavy recoiling calibers.
I could relate the time he shot my buddys Encore handgun in 375 H&H with full power loads at 50 yards offhand but since this thread is about the 45 Auto I wont.

[44MAG#1]

"While I did not I am not so sure about this one???"

Dont worry about me. I learned by doing. I learned how to do things before the internet by doing the "dirty" work myself over close to 51 years.

[megasupermagnum]

Randy and M-Tec's, I have no doubts at all you can measure your crimps. You have been at this much longer than I have. I've tried it your way Randy many times in the past, and never got a repeatable measurment. I think M-Tec's method makes sense, but I still don't trust it completely. Based on what I'm seeing though, I would bet that you are not crimping the same amount as M-Tec's. I'd bet it is ungodly close, but there is just too much feel involved for me to believe you can get an honest measurement on a taper from one person to the next.

That works for you, and that is great. I am saying there is an easier way, and there is. The rotation of the die is consistent, since threads are fairly consistent. On an empty and sized case, I run the die down until it just kisses the case. I then turn it 1/4 turn farther. This produces a crimp very similar to the M-Tec's measuring method. All my revolver rounds I use a collet crimp die now. I go until those touch the shell holder, then another 3/4 turn. Surely you don't measure revolver crimps.