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Thread: off center sights ???

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
    nekshot's Avatar
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    off center sights ???

    Howdy everyone, my son got a post 64 model 70 in 338. The factory sights are slightly off to the left, and when moving sights the maxim amount it still is off 4 inches at 50 yards. To make the situation correct I need to rotate barrel till sights are true, then run a reamer in chamber for correct dimension. Loosening the barrel till they are true is not going to happen on my watch. The only thing I can think of is to see if i can refit the sights to be correct and epoxy them on. He wants the see thru sights scope rings and I can eliminate the rear sight on barrel and install a ghost ring type sight in back scope ring where the open sight feature is. I would have more horizontal movement there than the factory rear barrel sight gives. I might have tunnel vision of this fix and if you got a better way, i am all ears. I have not posted here for a while because of health and also I joined a AR forum as I really needed help on a AR platform. This forum is the most civil and courteous forum I have encountered and hope it stays as such!
    Look twice, shoot once.

  2. #2
    Boolit Grand Master pietro's Avatar
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    I would try to drill down on the zeroing issue... so, here's a few ideas:

    Have you checked the muzzle crown for damage on one side, that's throwing the POI off ?

    Have you checked that the stock bedding is correct, and not putting side pressure on the installed barreled action ?

    I would pay particular attention to the action's recoil lug, ensuring (via using a few thin bots of kid's Play-Dough) the only the rear face of the lug contacts wood (and not the front, sided & or bottom)


    IMO, you have an excellent training opportunity for your Son, so I hope you can get him involved in the trouble shooting/repair.

    .
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  3. #3
    Boolit Master

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    I know his preference is to shoot with see-thru rings. My experience is that it is a compromise and I don't shoot nearly as well with see thru rings as I do with either a scope or irons only. The scope shooting is a huge problem, because of inconsistent cheek weld/parallax due to the really high scope alignment to comb.

    My preference would be to shoot scope only, if I needed to shoot close, I'd go with a 2-10 power and be able to shoot both near and as far as I wanted for a hunting situation.

    I know that doesn't alleviate your iron sight issue, but if this were my gun, I would rock and roll with just a scope.

  4. #4
    Boolit Buddy
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    Does the front sight have a dovetailed ramp with sight insert? If so, assuming 24" barrel about 20" sight radius you would only have drift the insert .044" to the left to adjust POI 4" to the right at 50yds or a bit more to free up some rear sight adjustment. If looks are important you may be able to modify a replacement front sight with a wider base to completely fill the dovetail after the adjustment.

  5. #5
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    Have you checked the light bars of the barrel to see it it is straight?
    The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
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  6. #6
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    Since it's a Win. a factory repair is out, so it seems to me that the barrel adjustment is the best solution, and as you observed the chamber will then have to be reamed a bit to compensate. This will involve making almost a complete turn inward until the sights are top dead center, with a bit being removed from the face of the barrel shank.

    Whether or not a "Joe Magee" job would work, and how well, depends on a little more information from you. Are both the front and rear sights inclined left. Like perhaps the barrel was turned too far in at the factory? If it's just the front sight only, and if it's in a dovetail, the dovetail could be carefully filed so that it's bottom was level instead of inclined to the left, and the resulting small void created by the filing filled with solder or epoxy. If the front sight is on a screwed on ramp, and the back sight is also inclined left and screwed on, you've got a problem in that to fix it without removing the barrel you would have to drill and tap new screw holes, and you would have to relocate them slightly on the barrel to not have the new holes interfere with the original holes. Another possible solution would be to plug the original screw holes and just have the sights silver soldered on at top dead center. Anyway you choose to go, it looks like a trip to the gunsmith.

    DG

  7. #7
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    If the Front Sight is cocked and not strait up and down in relation to the center line of the receiver then that needs to be fixed. If you can't do it, then I'd recommend finding someone who can.

    If the Front Sight is Bent, then knocking it out and replacing it wouldn't be that hard. Brownell's has replacements.

    On that gun .006-.008 will equal 2-4" at 100 yards, so it won't take much to get it back to where it needs to be.

    Randy
    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
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  8. #8
    Boolit Master Cap'n Morgan's Avatar
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    Loosening the barrel till they are true is not going to happen on my watch.
    Why not? If you lock-tite the barrel in place and tighten it up against some sort of shim between bolt and barrel, it will still bear on the front flanks of the thread.
    Cap'n Morgan

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cap'n Morgan View Post
    Why not? If you lock-tite the barrel in place and tighten it up against some sort of shim between bolt and barrel, it will still bear on the front flanks of the thread.
    At one time shims were available for that. 1/16 of a turn would increase headspace by about .004". The other option is to peen the barrel like is done on M1's and M14's when the barrel is loose. Use a light to medium weight hammer with a polished face and tap the shoulder while rotating the barrel. If done using hundreds of light taps you can swage enough "extra" metal to let the barrel tighten normally without marring the barrel much. It will be barely visible.

    Post #25 deals with this https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...rel-came-loose
    Last edited by M-Tecs; 04-22-2021 at 04:19 AM.
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  10. #10
    Boolit Master

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    OK. How is rotating the barrel going to change anything if we are talking about a front sight and a barrel mounted rear sight? unless you have a peep sight or a receiver mounted sight, the relationship between the sights doesn't change. Unless the barrel is severely over rotated, 30+ degrees out, I just don't see where rotating the barrel fixes the problem.

    If only slightly overtightened, loosening the barrel may still keep the tightness within the correct torque settings. If not, use a shim. Headspace would be increased slightly. If this is a reloading proposition anyway, no issues. And I seriously doubt headspace would be increased enough to cause any issues.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    thanks every one for your input, but this is on gun that they got it wrong. I leveled the action and got it all squared up and yup, the sights are slightly to the left. I fabbed a ghost type of site in the look thru mount and got the front drifted as far as I can and at 50 yards it poked a hole slightly off. my son is a traveling nurse so when he gets home he will decide if he can live with it. If it was my gun the see thru sights would never made it on this gun. Sure is a nice gun and shoots very nice for a magnum of this type. 46 years ago I could have liked this rig for my self.
    Look twice, shoot once.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master Cap'n Morgan's Avatar
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    See-through mounts are an abomination in my book - but to each his own! They may have served a purpose with the poor quality scopes sixty years ago, but I've always thought of the concept as a solution to a non-existent problem.
    Cap'n Morgan

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cap'n Morgan View Post
    See-through mounts are an abomination in my book - but to each his own! They may have served a purpose with the poor quality scopes sixty years ago, but I've always thought of the concept as a solution to a non-existent problem.
    I tried them out years ago, found I had a real tendency to tilt the scope.
    The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
    John Taylor - "African Rifles and Cartridges"

    Forget everything you know about loading jacketed bullets. This is a whole new ball game!


  14. #14
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cap'n Morgan View Post
    See-through mounts are an abomination in my book - but to each his own! They may have served a purpose with the poor quality scopes sixty years ago, but I've always thought of the concept as a solution to a non-existent problem.
    They convert the scope to a semi-decent carry handle.
    Spell check doesn't work in Chrome, so if something is spelled wrong, it's just a typo that I missed.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check