Rem Rolling Block 30-40 Krag, extraction problem

[hornady308]

A while back I picked up a custom built Remington rolling block in 30-40 Krag. I assume the action is a No. 1, so I am keeping pressures low. I have no idea who built it or when. The problem has to do with extracting cases. Even new brass that easily slides in and out of the chamber is not removed by the extractor. It appears that the extractor is not tall enough to engage the case rim. I can think of several ways to correct this, but was looking for suggestions since I am no expert with rolling blocks. An easy solution is preferred since I am not a machinist. The extractor is just a nub of metal on the block (circled in red).

[john.k]

Looks like the extractor is an inserted peg ,maybe screwed in ,maybe just driven in.........if it can be removed ,then a more effective one can be made........however ,the stub extractor is generally considered to be a very poor attempt to cheapen production......the effective RB extractors are considerably more complex with cam operated claws etc.

[country gent]

Not sure what it is but the extractor should have a lip to catch the front of the rim and a lower section to match the rim dia, the cut in the barrel should be a little ahead of the rim and a radius matching the chamber on the top of the lip. It does appear to be threaded or pressed in to the block.

I would consider a couple options here , after doing some research to see what the barrel cut actually looks like. Maybe give Lee Shaver or other BP dun smith call.

The original could be tig welded up to provide the metal to recut to specs. this would require extra metal to clean up all around. after welding it could be reformed with careful use of files. Finding the correct filler might be tricky though.

If it can be removed a new one can be machined taller and the radius cut before its cut off the bar. While some fitting will be required it wont be near as much filing as above.

[John Taylor]

I have a roller just like yours. I ended up building up the extractor with a tig torch. If I had to do it again I would drill it out and screw a piece in.

[Jedman]

Your breechblock is from a early model that was chambered for the 50-70 or one of the shorter 50 cal. cartridges.
Being the 30-40 case has a large rim it may be usable if welded up and cut or filed to fit the smaller case.

Jedman

[Der Gebirgsjager]

All of the above are good, workable solutions. Another would be to disassemble the rifle so that you could lay the extractor against a small anvil and stretch the stud by peening it.



DG

[marlinman93]

Because of the ac the breech block travels in that sort of extractor will never work great, and the best you can expect is a little better than it does now. And if it's tall enough to work decently, then it will likely be an issue when closing the breech block also, as it's likely to fight you a bit.
Of course an original rotary, or sliding extractor either one would work better than that nub. But the absolute best would be to have a gunsmith machine the barrel for a sliding extractor under the chamber at 6 o'clock and make it T shaped, with a teat to hook the block and really be a positive setup.
Like this one I own. Mine is chambered for .22LR, but would work with any cartridge.:

[ulav8r]

Never even held a rolling block but the fourth picture shows the the front lip on the extractor has broken off. I would assume that properly repaired or replaced that type of extractor would at best would just barely start the case out of the chamber.

The rest of the gun looks like it would be well worth putting a proper extractor in it.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Here's a photo of my one and only RB example. The extractor on this one works fine and rotates on the side of the breech block. All the different types that I've seen work off the breech block being rotated in one manner or another. Obviously, Remington wrestled with the problem also, as evidenced by the several design changes. They never had a spring assisted extractor like a break open shotgun, and I think the goal wasn't much beyond getting the fired cartridge case out of the chamber enough to be able to grasp it with the finger tips to pull it out.

On mine the little lip toward the chamber is small indeed, and if broken or badly worn wouldn't be much more effective than your type in it's present condition. Practically speaking, your best solution is to work with what you've got. You can change the type of extractor, but as others have noted you'll have to pull the barrel and need a machinist/gunsmith to cut a slot in the barrel, even if you can find a breech block from a slightly different model with a different type of extractor (not impossible). It's just all in how far you want to go with the project money-wise.

You can get by with just lengthening the front edge of the existing stud by any of the good solutions that have been offered. The tolerances are so close, to get the stud to swing past the inserted cartridge without interference that it will definitely be a "cut and try" job. The situation is helped a little by the rim of the case being slightly beveled in the closing direction-- but not all .30-40 cases are. As I opined earlier, the practical solution might be to disassemble the rifle, put the breech block in a bench vise, and attempt to raise the forward edge a few thousands by peening it with a larger pin punch, or burring it a bit with a center punch. You'll probably be able to deform it enough that it will work, but don't expect spectacular results, just for it to be a bit better than it is. I think ulav8r makes a good point, that it is a fancy enough custom rifle to maybe go to a different extraction system. I'm just trying to give you the no-cost practical solution.

DG

[country gent]

On both my rollers the when chambering the rim hit the lip on the extractor and is final chambered the last .150 or so when the breech block closes. If the rim goes past it wont snap under both mine are the side mounted round plate type and come in at about 7:00 - 7:30.

If I were to convert yours to this type extractor I believe that I would set the barrel back a couple turns ( or what it takes) to face and clean up the old slot rather than leave an opening there into the chamber and unsupported spot on the case. More wok and time but just a better job in my mind.

That slot can be laid out and cut in with a jewelers file pretty quick.

Almost all my single shots from this era are the mechanical style and only pull the case out enough to get a finger on the rim and slide it out. My sharps high walls hepburns and brochart are all like this. These will pull the case out about 1/2" at the most. the rollers are 1/4"-3/8". But with the cost and rarity of these big cases I like this as I have more "control" of the case. They dont end up on the ground in the dirt and crud, but go straight from the chamber to be deprimed and dropped in the soap water bucket.

My Number 1s will kick the empty out to where they hit the top of the safety and usually lay on loading groove, but they some times roll off onto the ground.

[marlinman93]

I personally would never want a kicking extractor, (or ejector) on a single shot, unless the sole purpose of the gun was to hunt with. I hate chasing brass, so any extractor that withdraws the case enough to just allow for easy removal is exactly what I want in a rifle.
Remington started out with the sliding extractor that sat alongside the left of the chamber, and slid straight back. This worked well and kept contact with the rim constantly with it's straight travel. But it was made much too small, and any extraction issues could easily result in a broken extractor. I've never had a stuck case myself, so never hurt one of the old style extractors, and they work great for my guns.
But the improvement to make the Rolling Blocks sturdier for military use was the rotary extractor. The rotary was a bit more robust, and a lot tougher to break. But unfortunately it also didn't travel straight back, so as they wore out, they could get sloppy. When they were decades old, and we started rebuilding these guns, and shooting them again, it was easy to have enough play for a case to sometimes slip off the extractor when opening the breech, and have to fumble to get the cartridge out. And occasionally either type of extractor could wear enough to allow a rim to slip past it when chambering, and then the breech wont fully close.
All that said, when the system parts are in good shape, both extractors work well. But people have tried to improve them forever, and the only improvement that truly works better than the two originals is the T slot extractor I pictured on my #1 in .22LR. It just works, and no matter how much it wears, it still works.

[John Taylor]

The #5 rollers have a spring loaded extractor that is also an ejector, designed for rimless cartridges. The early extractor that is on the breach block will work just fine if it is high enough to catch the rim and located so the rim will not go past it when loading. I have done all three over the years. All three use different breach blocks. I'm working on a forth stile for 22 rim fire that rides on the breach block pivot pin. The breach block has a groove cut in the middle. Trying to figure out how to make it an ejector also.The action is one that someone shaved down to much to be safe with anything larger than a 22LR.

[ndnchf]

FWIW - That stud extractor is a very early type. It will work if fitted properly. I had to weld one up and machine it for a fake M1867 navy carbine. When fitted to the rim properly, they work fine. Here is a short video I made showing it.

https://youtu.be/OcedVZE0hYQ

[hornady308]

I really appreciate the great responses from everyone. I removed the breech block to get a better look at the stud extractor and it seems to be a piece of rod driven or screwed into a hole in the block. I tried to loosen it up with a pair of pliers, but it wouldn't budge, so I just peened it and cleaned it up. Took it to the range yesterday and put 40 rounds through it without a problem. If/when it is too worn to work properly I will have to use one of the suggested fixes. I really like the idea of a sliding extractor, but the stud type is certainly simple to do.

[country gent]

After many years of making tooling and things all I can say is simple is good the old designers of these rifles new that too.

[JSnover]

I wonder if the breech block could be modified to convert a press-fit or a threaded pin extractor to a spring-loaded pin, or if anyone at Remington considered it? Seems like it wouldn't be hard to do and would be fairly easy to replace.