It seems the OP should slug their throat & barrel, to decide which expander & taper crimp dies are most likely to yield successful results from the start. Or, take some risk and buy the dies first.
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It seems the OP should slug their throat & barrel, to decide which expander & taper crimp dies are most likely to yield successful results from the start. Or, take some risk and buy the dies first.
I do not doubt your statements here what so ever on the value of upgraded expanders.Originally Posted by Martin Luber
That being said. My dad and I have been loading my cast 45 of several flavors with no issue using the standard Dillon powder funnel expander and my old hand-me-downLyman dies (3-die set carbide). Dad uses same expander but Dillon dies. I personally reload for a Custom 1911, 2 1917s, and a g21. Dad loads mostly for 1917 and 1911 custom “race” gun (pin shooting gun). We both see fine accuracy, clovers at 10yds, so I recommend starting with the basics and upgrading if you find the need.
As earlier stated, 45acp has been around a long time and all the makers have it down pretty well. One may be “better” than another but often that’s more in the eye of the beholder than anything. They all can get the job done for you. Given that your loading for a poly gun frame and not a rifle I think you’ll be fine. If looking for long range accuracy than upgrade as the need arises.
Been using the Lee stuff for almost 40 years. I like the FCD for the taper crimp rounds and the bottle neck rifle stuff (collet crimp). Revolver isn't that big a deal since the FCD is still a roll crimp, but, I still like to crimp separate from the seating operation.
A 'crutch"? For what? What bad reloading practice would it cover up? Curious to know.
And, yes, I have used RCBS dies for reloading the .45acp, many, many years ago. Never had any problem with them, I just liked the Lee ones better.
And I am not exclusive to Lee either. For example, I like my Redding Competition seating die for the rifles
Thanks for all the advice, guys. I’ve been using a FcD for 9mm and am planning on getting one for 45acp. I’ll probably order a set of RCBS dies as I’ve had good luck with them in the past and others here have also.
There is much truth in the statement, that expanders are dimensioned for jacketed bullets. Just measure the diameter of your expander, and subtract .001 for springback, and you will see how much swaging pressure is put on a lead bullet. RCBS does make "Cowboy expanders" for lead bullet use. They open the case 1 to 2 thousandth more, for a less damaging bullet fit. I have made expanders already of drill rod, to get a better fit on oversized cast bullets, for revolvers with oversized cylinder throats.
The only average difference between sizer dies is the SAMMI tolerance specifications; sizers vary as much between dies of the same name as there is between brands.
There is little or no significant difference for expanders and seaters and crimpers if the user knows what he's doing. That said, Lyman's "M" expanders and its copies (RCBS, Redding) are the best for cast bullets.
I've run Lyman All American , RCBS , and Lee dies in 1965 , 198? , and 199? .
I kept the FCD but gutted it to use as a sizer for a fat Colts carbine and a light bulge buster push through die , the rest of the set went down the road recently .
Both the RCBS and Lyman are ACP/AR dies . To date other than some occasional base dia issues , hence the stripped FCD , I've had no issues with either set nor a sufficient difference to prefer one over the other . I have a loose RCBS taper crimp die but really have no need for it .
In my use of both sets together and individually I find the Lyman to produce a faster roll crimp and slightly less taper . The RCBS has a longer deeper taper and a less aggressive roll crimp . Ultimately the RCBS seater gives me more adjustment of the taper .
None of this is a help or hindrance or really of any significance to me as the 1917s the kids and Mom have don't have feed issues as long as the case heads fit and the front band is under .4535 .
As for quality and customer service and price value . I have a few high rent die sets and some Lee's , 7-8 makers and I'll buy RCBS of any vintage over most others unless the price happens to be the same or really close .
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I was young and stupid then I'm older now. Me 1992 .
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Without trial we cannot learn and grow . It is through our stuggles that we become stronger .
Brother I'm going to be Pythagerus , DiVinci , and Atlas all rolled into one soon .
A hint to those asking..... if the FCD by Lee is needed to “fix” rounds so they will chamber, it is possible you missed an oversized bullet, crooked bullet seating, or some other process that you missed earlier. In fact you most certainly did.
Perhaps better to catch the problem where it exists rather than squash the unlike round in an attempt to make it like the others. Often this reduces desirable bullet/case grip in so doing.
If it was so essential one wonders why current ammo plants and reloaders prior to its introduction managed to make functioning ammo.
Just answering the question posed. If you want to mash out of spec ammo into shape instead of investigating the why of why it doesn’t fit have at it.
I can buy the 4 die Lee die set handgun set cheaper than I can buy a 3 die set of any other brand with that I get a separate crimp die and the powder through die . The carbide ring does nothing on the revolver dies I have . the crimp die for auto rounds does . It insures that they all work in all my pistols . The Lee crimp die is also the easiest to fine tune of any of the dies I have on progressives and turrets so is the bullet seating die and I have Hornady , Rcbs and Redding .
I have different brand dies for almost every thing I load for but I use the Lee's unless I have a particular situation I am trying to deal with. I shoot for fun I don't compete and I am not an expensive equipment junkie. I can't tell any difference at the range which die set I loaded my ammo on . Some guys start with Lee and move to something else . I started with the other brands and have switched to Lee , at least for handgun ammo.
Late but I have dies from Lee, Lyman and RCBS. The Lyman are old Lyman steel All Americans. I notice no difference in the dies except the lubing, of course. I use the Lee's more than any other.
The Lee is the 4 die set. I seat and crimp in 2 steps for better performance. With cast I also use the Lee Universal Expander Die. Well worth the under $10. One pistol likes .469, another .471 The Lee lets me dial it in and get better results but others may not care to do this.
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I never said it was 'needed' to mash out rounds. Someone else is implying that if you use an FCD die then somehow you are doing something wrong.
I just like the way they work. They take a perfectly good 'bell mouth' case with properly seated bullet and apply a good taper crimp. FWIW, I have never noticed the bases of the rounds being touched by the carbide base insert. I guess I am doing something right after all
+1 for the Dillon dies
Charlie, a regular separate taper crimp die does the exact same thing that you want so by that definition the addition of the carbide sizing ring on the bottom their die as used by Lee is needless for you.
All reloading manufacturers offer a separate taper crimp die and have done so for many years. They will work as the Lee die does minus the potentially detrimental sizing.
The problem with the LFCD is many do use it as a fix it die which is the bad procedure mentioned earlier.
It’s not the base of the round that is touched by the Lee die. It is often over the bullet, and if you don’t want the bullet sized that is not good
Last edited by 35remington; 04-24-2021 at 05:29 PM.
What is wrong with RCBS dies? I've used them for years.
Am I in the dark about something?
Nothing wrong with them , they all work .
I use the Lee powder measures on presses so I was adding the Lee powder through expander and also adding a separate crimp die for about $15. more I can buy the 4 die Lee set . I find it handy to have a variety of dies so I can leave them adjusted in turrets or breech lock bushings depending on where they get used I can leave a set adjusted for 44 special and another for 44 mag same for 38/.357 and 32 h&r /327. I do like some of the features on Lee dies better than others but some of the others have features I like better than Lee.
But the bottom line if a person likes the Lee press mounted PM (I do) then with any set besides the 4 die Lee sets you still have to but 2 more dies to set up 4 stations. I come out cheaper if at some time I don't want to use a Lee die from the 4 die set to then buy that one special die of a different manufacture.
Rob, the much misunderstood and improperly used Lee FCD for handgun ammo IS just another tool for those who need it - and that's NOT because the loader doesn't know what the supposed web "experts" think it is!
The point of the FCD is to make ammo that will function every time, all the time; that's not a bad quality. Used "due to some (bad) reloading practices" ? That's not true and no one I've read has ever said what "bad practices" they are talking about!
Some reloaders presume that ALL cast bullets will shoot better if they are fatter than jacketed bullets; that isn't so but the myth persists. If we mix a fat bullet and a thick case with a tight chamber the odds of a stuck round (when you need it most?) goes way up and it just might get you killed. Lee's FCD and it's post crimp sizing ring is made to prevent failures to chamber and they do it without even touching a round that is "normal" diameter.
Thus, those people who loudly proclaim the FCD is a "crutch" for poor technique simply don't know what they're talking about.
Last edited by 1hole; 04-24-2021 at 08:57 PM.
Just me but I would never use reloads for self defense...mainly due to legal issues.
Agreed 100%. Been using Lee FCD for years for heavy recoiling handgun Ammo and 500 grain 45-70 bullets. Don’t *need* it, no problems with hand loads, it’s just something I picked up years ago...and most of my ammo shoots MOA (rifle) or 2”@25 yards (handgun)
Art
”Only accurate rifles are interesting”
——Townsend Whelen
In a time of universal deceit , telling the truth is a revolutionary act
—- George Orwell
This seems to be the same myth as the Lee FCD.
Can you find me one case with someone being charged with using handloads in a legal self defense situation?
Given that if ammunition must work in an autoloader proper procedure is to run it through a gauge or the gun’s chamber first it is rather hard to see the LFCD as some sort of lifesaving device.
Again....if your rounds don’t fit, find the cause and fix that rather than trying to crush an oversized round into shape. If rounds don’t fit investigate why not. The result is more consistent ammunition.
A thick case or oversized bullet really needs to be culled from the good ammo, not fixed by squashing it while possibly allowing it to have the same problem when reloaded again.
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