Why so little on mixed buckshot loads?

[Lloyd Smale]

reason? I guess i think of it like this. In a survival situation i can have a 12 gauge shell in my gun loaded with a duplex #6/#4buck and be armed for small game and if needed defend myself a bit better then with just #6. I can even load #4 buck/00 buck and be well armed for big game or bad people and still have a better chance of hitting a bird or rabbit at 30 yards or further. For normal hunting i dont see an advantage to it. I carry what is best for the game im hunting. All that said i never was much for what other so called experts preach. I test MYSELF and find that theres alot of miss truths and down right bs wrote in books. Then add to that that alot of whats wrote was wrote back in the 50s and 60s (LYMAN) and is outdated and was done with different tests and technology of the day. Like i said if you doubt it just look at there outdated views on bullets bumping up to be accurate. Anyone that has shot A LOT of cast bullets and has done accuracy testing will tell you that 9 times out of 10 a harder alloy will shoot better then a softer one. Why would you expect any different. A bullet bumping up is a bullet deforming and isnt going to do it the same time every time. So basicaly your trying to make a varying blob of lead shoot small groups. Only thing i use the lyman manual for is they have loading data for some obsolete rounds that arent in other books. It was my first loading manual so yes i read it cover to cover. If a new loader asked me if he should id laugh and tell him to go and buy a modern loading manual like a speer or hornady. If you want knowledge on loading lead in ANYTHING come here. Theres a 100 times more knowledge on this forum then whats in the lyman loading manual. To me its about like thinking you can fix your new silverado by looking at a 1964 chev service manual.

[Goofy]

The thing is, the longest shot inside my house is just under 23 yards. And that is from one end of the house, down the longest hallway, to the far side of the room at the other end. I don't think shot slowing down in the amount of time it takes to travel that far will be an issue. Also, with the way these are loaded into the shell, you have 12 #1 pellets forming a column in the center, and the 9 pellets of F sitting in the spaces around them. I will have to see how this patterns this week.

23 yards in the house....a load of #5 or #6 shot will disable or kill anyone at that range. Wish you the best with the project. One Loony to another, buckshot inside a home is not the best idea.

[megasupermagnum]

I would never bet my life on the above statement. More people shot with #6 shot have survived, than have been killed. I'm guessing he means 23 feet, not yards. At 23 yards, the shot definitely has slowed down significantly. A 23 yard hallway would be a mansion. For example, a #F buckshot fired from the muzzle at 1300 fps, would be down to 981 fps at 23 yards.

[Goofy]

I suppose if you shoot them in the foot they may get a little belligerent. Shoot 'em in the face or belly and it's game over. My saying so stems from many years afield with shotguns applied to most any game or varmint common to the south, Oklahoma, and Guam. I'm not prone to pushing the envelope unless pressed and wouldn't try what one of my acquaintances pulled off one day. 8 point buck at about 10 yards and a load of 12 ga #8 shot dropped it stone dead in its tracks, and no, he did not shoot it in the head.

2 years in middle Georgia with an Ithaca 37 20 ga with #3 buckshot. 77 dead hogs, and only had to pull the trigger 68 times. Re: my disdain for buckshot in a house, it will penetrate multiple walls as well as some exterior walls. What happens after that opens the Liability Door big time. Such performance is unnecessary as well as undesirable.



What isn't obvious in the picture is that about 75% of the shot exited on the far side. Distance was about 20 yards.

[megasupermagnum]

I too love buckshot, and I think it a crying shame Minnesota, and now South Dakota as well both do not allow it for hunting anything larger than coyote. So many claim it a crippler, yet the truth is, nothing else can compare inside of 40 yards or so. Many, many deer have passed by me because I was denied the proper tool for the job, and I didn't feel confident making the shot with a slug.

I have no doubts birdshot can be lethal, but no, it is not always lethal. If you look at police reports, an outstanding number of people have taken birdshot to the chest at real close ranges, and lived to tell about it. Yes, it will deter most sane people. The problem is, anyone attacking a man with a shotgun is not sane. I'm not willing to bet my life to that. Something like BB lead shot will not go through many walls, and is most definitely lethal.

[Goofy]

Well, a fella's gotta do what he's comfortable with I reckon.

I suppose I come from a different world that most scattergun jockeys, what with having spent virtually all my life hunting with such contraptions. Thing is that I evolved into a weirdo that knows what each of the ones I have will do with what shot and at what range. Along the way I also had the opportunity to see what happens to people shot with a variety of guns in all places, such as legs, guts, chests and heads.

Couple or three points about the art: For a given choke most guns will shoot a tighter pattern with a shorter/lighter load of shot. Of all things important, FIT is the most salient aspect of effective use of a scattergun due the fact that application is instinctive rather than aimed. Given some actual use it is not difficult to function as a AA class wing shooter, or even to shoot a quails head off at close range rather than blow the whole bird to smithereens on a covey rise. This might be, from time to time, how one fills the skillet with just a few coveys rather than hunting all day long.

Another curious aspect that many have not digested is probably driven more by conventional wisdom rather than experience. In self defense mode the very highest priority is to disable your enemy, not to kill them. If they die after the fact, fine, but what you don't want them doing is shooting back. I mentioned the face/belly shot previously and having witnessed the effects of such wounds it is perfectly clear to me that a person shot at close range in either place will cease to be a problem. It has nothing to do with anything other than pain and immediate disability. I mentioned #5 or #6 shot. Well, there's no harm in gravitating to BB shot is so disposed, but the point is that a face full of bird shot in the gut or face will stop the show every time. Point of illustration for any that care, is some minor work recently done with an ancient WC Scott SxS with damascus barrels. #8 shot at 20 yards. Sorry that the pattern is not easy to see, suffice to say that if administered to a bad guy's face he would most likely be blind as a bat after the fact.



Brass shell loaded with BP; 3-1/4, 1-1/8 oz, #8

Another thing that I've come to recognize over the years, shot penetrates better than most realize. Mentioned the hog massacre earlier and implied that on a few occasions more than one hog was killed with a single shot. None of the bystanders were killed because of an expanding pattern, but rather by shot that had penetrated the targeted pig and then #2 or #3. Smaller shot is capable, within limits, of doing the same thing. FPE and velocity are largely irrelevant in this matter as the number of holes count more. Penetrate thru and thru? Not necessary. Punch a hole thru a shirt, a layer of skin or two and then tickle the intestines. Watch them scream like a little girl as they thrash around on the ground/floor.

Another illustration on that point. .22 CB shorts by CCI have an advertised MV of 710 fps. Not very fast at all, and they only weigh 29 grains. Here's what that pathetic little bullet will do.




Recovered about 6" behind the skull in neck muscle, the boar was about 250# and shot at 15 yards.

[onelight]

That is impressive penetration from that CB cap I have not had that kind of performance on armadillos and coons.
Have had no exits on side heart shots with CB caps. Fired from a savage rifle.

[Goofy]

It surprised me to be sure. Up to about 125# on a broadside shot inside 40 yards they will fully penetrate a hog's neck including the spine.

[onelight]

Those are a lot BIGGER than the armadillos rooting up the yard and flower beds

[megasupermagnum]

I agree 100% about people underestimating shot. Not just shot either, bullets too. The internet has at least doubled the size of fish, and made animals tough as steel. I'm convinced that even avid shooters often have no idea the real potential of the firearm they have in their hand, usually grossly underestimating.

[mdi]

I've heard a lot about Duplex Loads concerning powder charges, but not a lot about duplex shotgun loads. Not criticizing anyone's opinion, but I still want to know what the advantages would be with mixing smaller shot with buckshot in regards to the OP's original question (Home Defense?). More shot on target? To me if wanting more pellets per load I'd drop to #1 Buck, 15 pellets, or even down to #4 with 27 pellets in a 12 ga 2 3/4 load. I seriously doubt if any bad guy would laugh off a load of #4 buck in his belly at 25 yards...