New to me Danish Rolling Block

[stevemac1799]

Hello, I got a 1867 Danish Rolling block yesterday and was wondering if there was any special jag/cleaning attachment I needed in order to clean it since it is blackpowder? I have a basic rifle cleaning kit and I know 11.7x51 is close to 45-70 but wanted to ask if that jag (.45) was ok to use on it since it is not an exact match. I have also encountered doubt as to whether it is rimfire or not. I also understand that if I want to be able to enjoy it as a shooter, I will need to reload for it and was wondering if there were any dies being sold for it an generally what do I need to get in order to start to reload it? Thanks in advance yall!

[RustyReel]

Your .45 jag should be fine, try it. You can look at the breech face and see if it is a rimfire. If it is you are SOL as the saying goes. Lots of info on the net about the Danish RB and how it compares, some say actually works, with the 45/70 rounds. I have some Swedes and they are basically a shortened 50/70 but don't have a Danish.

[stevemac1799]

I am trying to upload the picture I took of the breech block but I'm getting a "invalid format" error. What would a rimfire and centerfire breech block look like? Would I use 45-70 brass in a 11.7x51 die set (if I can find one)?

[Chill Wills]

Here is a picture of both blocks, - Danish Rollers. The left block is the rimfire.

[john.k]

Hot soapy water is the miracle cleaner for blackpowder......simply immerse the muzzle and squeege the water up and down the bore half a dozen times ......by the time the water has dried ,the bore is spotlessly clean,and ready to be oiled.No need for dozens of tight patches or great effort.....(bar soap ,not detergent)

[stevemac1799]

So I cross posted this on Gunboards (where I could post a picture) and have been told it has been converted to centerfire. Link to that post is here: https://www.gunboards.com/threads/da...block.1189178/

[stevemac1799]

So I don't need to/shouldnt use patches or Hoppes 9 to clean? Just run hot soapy water to clean, interesting.

[Chill Wills]

Yes. I recommend using patches. There are as many right ways to do things as you will get people here to expound on them. Don't spare the patches .

[Chill Wills]

I just checked your posted link and photo. Yup. That is a converted rimfire block. Now the question is, what, if anything did they do to the chamber?

This rifle must have just landed in your lap so to speak, given you did not get much history as to its cartridge, rimfire or centerfire.

[Whole Bunches]

I reload with Unique in my Danish. I use CH dies in 11.7x51. I did a chamber cast to make sure of what I had. I felt my chamber diameter was too large to try and let 45/70 brass expand to fill, so I use formed cases from Buffalo Arms. My groove diameter is .462”.

I cast the Lee 405-450 HB with 20/1. As cast, they are .462”, so I pan lube with 50/50. I barely resize the fired brass, only enough to hold the bullet. I use 12.0 grains of Unique. I feel no need to load the most powerful loads.

[marlinman93]

I had a Danish in the same caliber that was in beautiful shape. Too nice to be a donor for a rifle build, so gave it to my son in law. I made up ammo using .45-70 brass, but had to find some larger bullets as it slugged at .459" so used .460" bullets. I also had to shorten the brass a bit, but don't recall how much? I simply trimmed it, and tried it in the chamber until it finally chambered fully. Then made up more based on that length.
I loaded them using my .45-70 dies, but didn't full length size them ever again after the first firing. Just loaded them with powder, primer, and seated the bullets. Never tried any black powder, as I just used low power smokeless loads.

[sharps4590]

steve, I'm not being a smart aleck and as you've been researching your rifle you've probably read some comments about loading/shooting supplies and tools. You picked the worst time to start loading that I've ever seen in over 50 years of participating in the hobby. I hope for you, and everyone else, things get caught up soon.

[stevemac1799]

Well I wasn't around 50 for the majority of the past 50 years so there's that I guess lol.

[EdZ KG6UTS]

Hello, I got a 1867 Danish Rolling block yesterday.......

Congratulations on the "new" rifle. Check out these folks http://www.rollingblockparts.com/ . I've had good luck with them. They sell a replacement trigger spring that improves trigger pull a lot and has worked on both my Rollers.

EdZ KG6UTS

[17nut]

Here is a resume i wrote some time ago to adress the confusion about chamber length:

Danish Rolling Blocks and chamber length confusion

The original Danish RB round was 11.4x41.5R rimfire. Load was 52grains in 1867 and changed to 60 grains of BP behind a 385 grain boolit.
Denmark ordered 20000 rifles from Remington to be delivered within 6 months. That backfired for Remington because Sheffield could not deliver enough barrels.
The Danes got to make their own RB’s without paying royalty as a result.
5 production lines was set up and each of them had a master gunsmith which was in charge of quality. Each smith had to manufacture his own set of Go-No Go gauges and have them certified by the factories master controller. This becomes important later!
All is well and from 1867 to 1878 @78500 RB’s are manufactured.
In 1884 the Danes start to develop a replacement for the RB and at the same time they start to ponder a way to modernise the RB’s. In 1896 they were officially converted to: Smokeless, centerfire and jacketed bullets.
And now comes problems in heaps falling down on the arsenal, Because of the 5 different Go-No Go tools it is clear that bores range from 11.25mm~.443” to 11.75mm~.463”. You can’t design a standard round with jacketed and smokeless that will work within those ranges with any kind of accuracy and without huge variations in pressure. So all rifles falling out of new specs was ”scrapped” to the fire pit for badly offsized bores. A LARGE long throat was devised to size the new jacketed bullets (Cupper-Nickel) for the black powder bores.
That is why most Danes will chamber a 45-90 without problems and why the 11.4x56R thought exists.

In the development of the final cartridge choices in smokeless was dismal and experiments led to the 56mm cartridge. But that meant grinding down the hammer for chamber access and that was dismissed along with slower reloading of the rifle. Only 100 rifles were ever converted and they can be easily identified by the ground down hammer. Most/all were scrapped so the likelihood of hundreds of them popping up in the US is nill. You have a ”standard” 11.4x51R chamber.

When conversion was done in 1895 some metallurgic tests were made on barrel steel. It was found that the Sheffield steel barrels used by Remington was as originally specified but not as strong as the German Witten steel used in the Danish made rifles. That means the Remingtons are rated at a max. of 1200bar~17,4kpsi and the Danish ones marked ”Kjøbenhavns Tøihuus” are rated at a max. of 1600bar~23.2kpsi. In short do not use Trapdoor loads even if full length 45-70 (or longer) brass fits your chamber!

I know some of the most avid gun collectors in Denmark and noone has ever seen a Remington in the original 11,7x56R chambering, so again just because your rifle might chamber a 45-90 case, does not make it a 11,7x56R but simply a standard 11,7x51R with a long throat (which they all have!)

[Tom Herman]

Steve,

Congratulations on your Rolling Block!
I have an 1881 vintage rifle: I have used both .45/70 brass and fire formed it, as well as the Buffalo Arms brass.
My rifle regrettably has a headspace issue, it's currently sidelined until it's repaired (blows primers out with BP loadings, the pins/breech block are apparently worn. If someone offers you a RB where the block doesn't lock up like a bank vault, they are NOT your friend!).
To fire form the .45/70 brass, run a small band of electrical tape around the shell maybe a half inch or so up from the base: This centers the undersized cartridge so it will be less likely to be lopsided.
I use the Lee 405 grain HB bullet mould.
I use standard .45/70 dies (Hornady seat/crimp, plus the Lee Universal Decapper), but only use a separate neck sizing die, so the case isn't brought back down to .45/70 size every time it's used.
So, no special dies here (at least not for that caliber. I did have to spend the $$$ for CH4D dies for my .43 Mauser).
Best of Luck!

-Tom

[GregLaROCHE]

Sounds like you have yourself a great project and members have already given you a lot of useful information. Good luck!

[farinacci556]

Hello all and thanks for this thread. I just picked up a very nice Danish Remington Rolling Block with target sights and a great trigger. I did a chamber/bore cast and the groove diameter is . 463. With . 458-9 bullets they keyhole at 25 yards. I am sure the idea is a larger diameter bullet for this bore but when I put in a .463 bullet in the Buffalo Arms Brass it will not chamber. Is the solution shortening the brass? I have a feeling I'm missing something. Any advice much appreciated- best MC

[17nut]

Hello all and thanks for this thread. I just picked up a very nice Danish Remington Rolling Block with target sights and a great trigger. I did a chamber/bore cast and the groove diameter is . 463. With . 458-9 bullets they keyhole at 25 yards. I am sure the idea is a larger diameter bullet for this bore but when I put in a .463 bullet in the Buffalo Arms Brass it will not chamber. Is the solution shortening the brass? I have a feeling I'm missing something. Any advice much appreciated- best MC

I will get back to you tomorrow.
Now im to high on fine portwine.
There are things to try and things to do.

[farinacci556]

Enjoy the vino. Help would be great- thanks MC