Match Loads

[hawkenhunter50]

Got a question for those that are making match grade loads. Was reading earlier discussions on volume vs weight BP loading. Saw several comments that top shooters are all weighing charges. So here's the question....When you have an established load made and have to buy new powder and it's from a different lot, say the new lot is less dense so it weighs less. Do you assemble your load with more powder and more compression to keep the weight the same or do you re-establish a new load every time you have to get a new lot of powder?

I would think if you stayed with the same weight and had to compress more to stay at the same OAL that the load would surely shoot different than what you had been shooting.

Just wondering if you guys start over from scratch each new lot of powder.

[rfd]

For me, ALWAYS re-establish a new load every time you have to get a new lot of powder.

[Lead pot]

HH-50

Lots of powder tend to change. and if your one that uses a powder drop or scoop of some sort the weight will change per volume of the scoop or drop say like the Lyman 55.
I don't have a set of weight or volume that I start loading a bunch of match ammo with and go and shoot a match unless it's the same lot of powder, bullet, primers and wads I used before for that rifle.
I just opened a new case of Swiss getting ready for a match at Lodi Wis and I went through some ladder test loads and the weight of the best I used on the last lot has changed but the compression stem in the compression die I have set for the seating depth is still the same. I don't change the seating depth that holds my PP bullets.

The ladder loads start with zero compression and that sets the starting volume in the case and also take the wad stack thickness in mind for the zero compression then I weigh that volume of powder and that will be the starting weight for my ladder loads that increase by one grain per 2 shots to 5 shots of the same powder charge. I like starting with 2 shots and pick the best group and follow up with 5 shots of the best three to verify the first best two shots.
Below is the ladder load target I shot yesterday with this new lot of Swiss.
I shot this at 100 meters because the 200 yard line was shut down for work but that is just as well because I can see those targets better and get a good sight picture to eliminate sighting errors. Those orange posters are 1.5" and that black diamond in the center is 1/4" and that is large enough that I can see it through my 8X scope to get a good sight picture, and at 100 mtrs the wind is less of an factor.
I don't have a place I can work on loads farther than 200 yards so I use that range for a 5 or 10 shots to verify those two shot groups and go shoot the match.
Yes this is a lot of shots fired but this also gives me trigger time so it serves a lot of purposes. Trigger time is just as important as a good load.

[rfd]

... Lots of powder tend to change.

Take that to the bank!!! Some of us went through that with Swiss 1-1/2F.

[Don McDowell]

Keep it simple if you weigh charges. With a new lot of powder start at the exact same place you left off with the other, shoot a few rounds to see what if any adjustments need be done. If you're a volume loader, the same applies, same volume see what the target tells you.

[hawkenhunter50]

Take that to the bank!!! Some of us went through that with Swiss 1-1/2F.

Thanks all, kinda figured that's what people were doing, makes more sense now why people are buying case lots of powder.

[hawkenhunter50]

HH-50

Lots of powder tend to change. and if your one that uses a powder drop or scoop of some sort the weight will change per volume of the scoop or drop say like the Lyman 55.
I don't have a set of weight or volume that I start loading a bunch of match ammo with and go and shoot a match unless it's the same lot of powder, bullet, primers and wads I used before for that rifle.
I just opened a new case of Swiss getting ready for a match at Lodi Wis and I went through some ladder test loads and the weight of the best I used on the last lot has changed but the compression stem in the compression die I have set for the seating depth is still the same. I don't change the seating depth that holds my PP bullets.

The ladder loads start with zero compression and that sets the starting volume in the case and also take the wad stack thickness in mind for the zero compression then I weigh that volume of powder and that will be the starting weight for my ladder loads that increase by one grain per 2 shots to 5 shots of the same powder charge. I like starting with 2 shots and pick the best group and follow up with 5 shots of the best three to verify the first best two shots.
Below is the ladder load target I shot yesterday with this new lot of Swiss.
I shot this at 100 meters because the 200 yard line was shut down for work but that is just as well because I can see those targets better and get a good sight picture to eliminate sighting errors. Those orange posters are 1.5" and that black diamond in the center is 1/4" and that is large enough that I can see it through my 8X scope to get a good sight picture, and at 100 mtrs the wind is less of an factor.
I don't have a place I can work on loads farther than 200 yards so I use that range for a 5 or 10 shots to verify those two shot groups and go shoot the match.
Yes this is a lot of shots fired but this also gives me trigger time so it serves a lot of purposes. Trigger time is just as important as a good load.

Thanks for the good explanation and pics, nice looking ammo box.

[Lead pot]

Thank you.
I build several during this dry spell no match year

[rfd]

Thank you.
I build several during this dry spell no match year

Sweet!

[Lead pot]

TNX. Rob.
When I got it finished my wife said can I have it ? that is just right for my painting things.
How can you turn her down after 56 years.

Come on up for the Lodi Match the first weekend of May. Your not to far south.
I verified the ladder load again for 200, so it's a go for Lodi. I hope it holds up for the 800, 900 and the 1000.

[greenjoytj]

Got a question for those that are making match grade loads. Was reading earlier discussions on volume vs weight BP loading. Saw several comments that top shooters are all weighing charges. So here's the question....When you have an established load made and have to buy new powder and it's from a different lot, say the new lot is less dense so it weighs less. Do you assemble your load with more powder and more compression to keep the weight the same or do you re-establish a new load every time you have to get a new lot of powder?

I would think if you stayed with the same weight and had to compress more to stay at the same OAL that the load would surely shoot different than what you had been shooting.

Just wondering if you guys start over from scratch each new lot of powder.

See the thread titled “Powder Weight” started 05-05-2021, 01:28 PM look for post #12 & #13
You question is answered there.

[country gent]

One thing to do is test each way weighed and as thrown. See what your rifle likes and does the best with.

It takes a lot more variation with BP to get 100 fps than smokeless powder.

The other os the mind end of it, If weighed charges give you more confidence then its going to be better

[Dave T]

If I did even part of load development and testing you suggest, in this current world of 'no primers to be had', I wouldn't have any primers left to load ammo just to shoot. Either you guys have sources for primers we the unwashed don't have, or we now know where all the primers disappeared to! LOL

Dave

[rfd]

After the last ammo and component drought you didn't stock up, shame on you, your loss. It is what it is.

[dirtball]

I have not had to buy primers since 2008, thanks to Obama.
Still probably good for another 5 years.

Dave

[country gent]

Some buy components buy the 100 or by the sleeve / brick or pound some buy by the case and or keg. When I was competing in NRA high power I started loading ammo for the year in February. case of primers couple 8 lbers of powder and bullet by the 500 box. I wanted the years ammo all as close to the same as possible, Usually purchased components on co,commercial row when prices were good and no shipping.

In an NRA match you got 2 sighters at each yard line, CMP DCM no sighters so a consistent zero was important. I also didnt wnt to waaste practice time loading ammo for each match

[Dave T]

After the last ammo and component drought you didn't stock up, shame on you, your loss. It is what it is.

rfd,

My post was meant to be in fun. Sure is nice to come here and be told off and insulted.

Not that it matters but I didn't own a BP cartridge rifle back then and didn't know I would get back into it again. I did stock up and the stuff I was shooting at the time. Guess we can't all be as smart as you.

Dave

[rfd]

rfd,

My post was meant to be in fun. Sure is nice to come here and be told off and insulted.

Not that it matters but I didn't own a BP cartridge rifle back then and didn't know I would get back into it again. I did stock up and the stuff I was shooting at the time. Guess we can't all be as smart as you.

Dave

Dave - Sorry, my post was not directed at you personally, and like your post, was meant to be in fun.

[indian joe]

[QUOTE=country gent;5186257]One thing to do is test each way weighed and as thrown. See what your rifle likes and does the best with.

It takes a lot more variation with BP to get 100 fps than smokeless powder.

Yah But ------dont need to insert much "casual" into the loading process to see ES numbers in the 60FPS area either

I agree big time with your "mind" statement - I need to go out 100% sure that if that boolit dont go exactly where it sposed to, twas me that put it in the wrong place.

[tmanbuckhunter]

I dispense my charges by weight, and have recently gone to dispensing them via chargemaster combo. I still run the charges thru a drop tube, slow poured. You'll just have to play around and see what your rifle likes, but it's not rocket science. Don't get hung up on compression... whatever it takes to get your bullet seated at the desired depth that works in your rifle. To get a rough idea, use this equation.

Subtract the desired OAL minus the length of your bullet. Take the length of your cases, subtract that from the sum of OAL - Bullet length. That is roughly from the mouth of the case to your wad, what the distance should be to insure no air gap between the wad/charge and base of the bullet. From there you can then measure how much you're compressing the charge to achieve that. If shooting a 45/70, start at 59-60gr and increase by 1 grain from there.