your opinion on this load development

[atr]

12 gauge-2-3/4
ALCAN Plastic High Base Case
20.5 grains of Hi-Skor 700-X
1-1/2 0.135 Nitro over powder wad
(1) WAA12R plastic wad
shot a little over 1-1/8 oz but under 1-1/4 oz....call it 1-3/16 oz

Am I pushing the limit of safety? Am I a max or below or over max?
I did try this load, one shot and compared to a standard factory load of High base the recoil did not seem different. but that is subjective and I would like your opinions.
thanks
atr

[scattershot]

Well, the obvious question would be, where did you find this load?

[megasupermagnum]

That is a bizarre load, I would say don't shoot those. Most data now for 700x says do not go above 1 1/8 oz. If you really want to load 1 1/4 oz, I recommend you use the following data I pulled from an older IMR manual. Don't substitute hulls or primers.

Federal gold medal 2 3/4" (new style Top Gun also acceptable)
Federal 209A primer
18 gr IMR 700X
Federal 12S4 or Winchester AA wad (both listed at 18gr)
1 1/4 oz lead shot

1175 fps
11,500 psi


#2
Winchester AA 2 3/4"
Winchester 209 primer
19 gr IMR 700X
Winchester AA wad
1 1/4 oz lead shot

1200 fps
11,500 psi

[atr]

I put this together using the current Lyman manual. that manual gave 20 gr of 700 in 1-1/4 oz load as maximum. In that manual Hi Skor 700 starts around 18 and progresses up to the maximum of 20 gr depending on shot weight.
I had to piece this together from looking at this manual and several others.
I don't have a variety of cases so I am trying to fit the load receipt to the ones I have, and the wads/shot I have.

I will try lowering the charge to 18 gr.

[barkerwc4362]

I had to go back to the 1st edition of the Lyman Shotshell Handbook, which has a 1969 copyright, to find recipes with Alcan cases. There is one load for 1 1/4oz and two for 1 1/8oz using 700x. All use the Alcan 220 Max-Fire primer. The 1 1/4oz load uses the Alcan Flite-Max #4 wad, while the 1 1/8oz loads use the Alcan Flite-Max #5 wad. The 1 1/4oz load shows 18.0 grs of 700x with a pressure of 9,900 L.U.P. at 1105 fps. The 1 1/8oz loads show loads of 17.0 of 700x with a pressure of 8,700 at 1105 fps and 18.0 of 700x with a pressure of 9,400 L.U.P. at 1140 fps. Your load at 20.5 is way above these! Before I would even consider shooting that load I would have to have it pressure tested.
Bill

[atr]

thanks barkerwc...
I did already fire the load in question. Compared its recoil (subjective I know) to a factory 1-1/4 load made by Remington. The felt recoil felt about the same. But I think you are right that 20+ grains is on the edge of being unsafe, if not unsafe.
I looked through and compared some old ALCAN load data and they also used 20 grains as maximum but with paper cases.

[Hogtamer]

I betcha if you cut one of those alcan hulls open you would discover a cardboard or cork type basewad. The powder will be ok if so, but you need a plastic wad with a taller crush section like the claybuster federal SO3 replacement and lose all the cards.

[longbow]

Not sure of your background or knowledge of reloading shotgun shells so I'll mention that some seemingly small changes can have large effects on pressure in shotshell reloading.

For instance, you do not mention the primer used in your load. A change of primer can affect pressure by up to 3000 PSI. Not a big deal if you are running 11,500 PSI as in msm's example and the pressure drops by 3000 PSI but no so good if the pressure rises by 3000 PSI. 209 primers are not created equal!

You should read this:

http://www.armbrust.acf2.org/primersubs.htm

Also, at least one of my manuals points out that velocity is not a good indicator of pressure and they show an example of an altered load shooting at same or mild increase in velocity as their recommended load but at much higher pressure.

Substitutions in components for same payload and powder charge can have a large effect on powder burn rate and pressure.

Play but play safe!

Longbow

[megasupermagnum]

I just checked the current Lyman manual (5th edition). It does not list a single 1 1/4 oz load with 700X.

At 18 grains you are probably OK, and I might even drop to 17 grains if this is purely for target shooting.

[RMc]

2003 IMR Data Book.

Look under 12 gauge Field Load Data for 1.125 and 1.25 ounce 700X loads.

http://pdf.textfiles.com/manuals/FIR..._reloading.pdf

[atr]

the 4th edition lyman gives 20 gr/700 hi skor with 1.125 oz.
atr

[megasupermagnum]

Right, but if you are using more than 1 1/8 oz, you should be using 1 1/4 oz data. Any reason you aren't loading 1 1/8 oz?

[dsh1106]

12 gauge-2-3/4
ALCAN Plastic High Base Case
20.5 grains of Hi-Skor 700-X
1-1/2 0.135 Nitro over powder wad
(1) WAA12R plastic wad
shot a little over 1-1/8 oz but under 1-1/4 oz....call it 1-3/16 oz

Am I pushing the limit of safety? Am I a max or below or over max?
I did try this load, one shot and compared to a standard factory load of High base the recoil did not seem different. but that is subjective and I would like your opinions.
thanks
atr

The max load I've been able to find for 1 1/8 using 700X is 20 grains and was using Fed hulls. 2000 or 2001 data.
I have Alcan load data from 1966 and could find anything list for 700X, might be to far back.

as mentioned earlier there is some data available in the Lyman 1st edition, but nothing close to the what you've posted.