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Thread: Sticky bolt on marlin 39

  1. #1
    Boolit Grand Master Bazoo's Avatar
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    Sticky bolt on marlin 39

    I have a marlin 39as I bought. It’s in good shape. I put a 39a hammer and trigger and mainspring in it. I didn’t shoot it but a mags worth before I converted it. It shoots good and cycles well and I don’t have issues...except one. I also polished some of the guts where they rub to slick it up.

    Once in a while, maybe every 30-50 it will stick the bolt/lever like it would with high pressure. It does it with CCI mini mags and stingers and it has done it with Aguila HV.
    With stingers it will do it a couple times out of a mag. The cases don’t look any different. Cases look normal compared across brands and from other rimfire arms.


    It doesn’t do it with armscor or Winchester wildcat (best I recall). Though it could be I just ain’t shoot it enough to do it.

    It takes maybe double the force to open the bolt when this happens, but it opens and ejects and all is fine. It seems it’s more likely to do it on a swabbed chamber or if it’s set loaded a while.

    Ideas? Is this just a marlin thing?

    Cases ain’t swollen to indicate headspace problems and the bolt closes tight. I did not polish the lever arm or it’s mating surface on the bolt that controls headspace and lockup. It has some machine marks there as well as some polished area from wearing in.

    I have not cleaned the chamber excessively. I ran a bronze brush through the bore a few times and wiped it clean, oil and dry patches. Could it be a cleaning issue? I don’t see how as it feeds and extracts fine. It looked clean when I was into it.

    I’ve looked online, at rimfirecentral and marlin owners (where I’m a member but don’t say nothin) and can’t find any info of a like query.

    Thanks

    Bazoo.

  2. #2
    Boolit Buddy para45lda's Avatar
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    Look closely at the chamber opening. It may be peened and need swaging? I love mine but it needs a new extractor.
    Good luck!
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  3. #3
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    Winger Ed.'s Avatar
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    Due to the higher pressure of Stingers-
    if there is any 'stickiness' or imperfection to be had, a scratch,
    or a flaw in the chamber, the spent case will probably expand enough to find and fill it.

    I haven't had a 39 for a long time,
    but I remember Stingers being a tiny bit harder to extract and cycle out than the el cheapo .22s.
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  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    Black Sharpie the cases and maybe a shiny spot will show and possibly reveal a problem area?

  5. #5
    Boolit Grand Master Bazoo's Avatar
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    It ain’t got any damage from dry firing.

    Make no mistake, it isn’t hard extraction, it’s hard lever movement like from higher pressure. The lever moves from behind the lug on the bolt before the bolt moves. Once the lever “unlocks” the bolt has no problem moving.

    I haven’t done anything yet as far as scrubbing the chamber. I’m still researching it.

    Preciate the replies.

  6. #6
    Boolit Buddy
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    Stinger cases are a little longer than standard 22lr cases. That's probably the problem, solution is stop shooting stingers in that rifle.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
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    I use a thick grease on the end of the locking surface of the lever, and the machine marks actually help hold a little lubricant there. Like an M-1 Garand, any moving part with any finish wear, gets a film of grease. Might not fix the problem, but can't hurt!

  8. #8
    Boolit Grand Master Bazoo's Avatar
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    Thanks for the grease idea.

    I know stingers have longer cases, mini mags and aguila don’t though. What’s the solution to those? I have a couple thousand of each mini mags and aguila, so it’s not feasible for me to not shoot them. Regardless, this isn’t something the rifle should do with any ammo.

    The problem ain’t the ammo, its the gun. Where exactly the problem lies eludes me however.

  9. #9
    Boolit Grand Master uscra112's Avatar
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    The bolt is held in battery by the cam surface on the lever, which bears on the underside of the bolt. Look there for something binding it. A flake of brass maybe.

    The 39 was made long before hypervelocity ammo, and probably isn't chambered for it. I don't shoot it in either of my 39as. In fact I don't shoot it in ANY rifles I own. It's usually not very accurate. More a marketing gimmick than a useful cartridge, IMO.

    High pressure puts more thrust on that cam, accelerating wear. I've used nothing more energetic than standard velocity in mine for decades. Mostly because it's the most accurate. And my old Dad's 39a, which is like new, is as accurate as all but the top-of-the-line competition bolt guns.
    Last edited by uscra112; 04-09-2021 at 07:08 PM.
    Cognitive Dissident

  10. #10
    Boolit Grand Master Bazoo's Avatar
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    I cleaned the chamber with a bronze brush in a drill and it seems to have resolved my issue after having shot 50+ rounds.

    Guess I need to invest in a bore scope cause I thought it was clean the first time. Glad it was an easy fix.

  11. #11
    Boolit Grand Master Bazoo's Avatar
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    I experienced a very faint harder bolt unlock again. Not nearly like before. I gave the end of the lever where it locks a couple passes with a piece of 1000 grit paper. It has some ridges there that I’m thinking may be locking into the bolt lug like cog teeth.

    I also ordered some bore tech c 4 carbon remover that should knock out any accumulated carbon ring in my chamber.

  12. #12
    Boolit Grand Master uscra112's Avatar
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    Unfortunately you can't take material off that cam surface without opening up the headspace, so be very cautious about smoothing it.
    Cognitive Dissident

  13. #13
    Boolit Grand Master Bazoo's Avatar
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    I know. Been thinking of getting another lever to see if it changes. I haven’t shot it since I sanded it. The amount I did likely wouldn’t have been measured except by the .0001.

  14. #14
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    I quite using those higher pressure loads like the Stingers years ago. Not very good accuracy and cause more problems than they are worth in my book. I stay with standard velocity ammo now. james

  15. #15
    Boolit Grand Master uscra112's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bazoo View Post
    I know. Been thinking of getting another lever to see if it changes. I haven’t shot it since I sanded it. The amount I did likely wouldn’t have been measured except by the .0001.
    On the brighter side, I've got a really tired old Ballard-rifled 39 that certainly hasn't got the headspace it once had, but it still shoots. Not <2MOA like my Dad's almost-mint 39a, but it would not embarrass itself if I had to use it for small game gathering with SV ammo.

    Something I'd try is smearing a very little 400 or 600 lapping compound on the cam and cycling the action a few dozen times. Wash everything thoroughly after, of course,
    Last edited by uscra112; 04-14-2021 at 10:06 PM.
    Cognitive Dissident

  16. #16
    Boolit Grand Master Bazoo's Avatar
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    Update.

    I have narrowed down the lever sticking to excessive headspace. The gun locks up upon firing some ammo and not others. It never does it with armscor but does it the most with aguila.

    I took a cartridge that had a .043 rim, a piece of tape that measures .0055 added to the head and it closes, two pieces and it closes with a bit of resistance. 3 pieces and it won’t close. So that’s .054. My research shows .051 as max, though I couldn’t find anything definitive on this, just a couple threads where it was stated as fact. Can anyone verify this or offer a link that does?

    I measured my rim on the edge with calipers. I also tried inserting the cartridge in a hole and measuring this way and both seem to be requiring a good deal of feel. How do you normally measure rim thickness?

    I changed levers, and the new lever closes still on 2 pieces of tape but harder. The difference in measurements between the two levers best I can tell is .004. The new lever does reduce the frequency of lever sticking, adding grease to the locking surfaces further helps some.

    So now, I think, I am looking to have the lever welded to lengthen it so I can headspace it. I’m researching all required. Questions I have include;

    Do I need to heat treat the lever end after it’s welded?
    Is there another approach?

    If all I want is to have my lever tig welded up, is there someone that can be suggested to do this?

    Also, is there a gunsmith that would be suggested to repair the headspace should I choose to go that route?

    I appreciate any suggestions or direction anyone can offer.
    Last edited by Bazoo; 05-16-2021 at 03:43 PM.

  17. #17
    Boolit Grand Master uscra112's Avatar
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    Before you go welding on it, look into having the working surface(s) built up with hard chrome plating. In my machine tool rebuilding career back in the '70s we did that a lot to restore worn shaft journals. Build up as much as .020", then grind back to size. The process has no effect on any heat treat that may be present, and is tough as nails. By using a stopoff coating, only the surface you want built up gets any plating.

    http://mahovskysmetalife.com/

    https://hausnerinc.com/industrial-ha...ting-services/ in Owensboro
    Last edited by uscra112; 05-16-2021 at 07:06 PM.
    Cognitive Dissident

  18. #18
    Boolit Grand Master Bazoo's Avatar
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    That’s an interesting idea. Thanks.

  19. #19
    Boolit Grand Master uscra112's Avatar
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    In your case you probably need only .005" or so of plating thickness.

    Search ".22 rim thickness gage" for ideas on how the serious .22 shooters do it. Lots of hits. Most use a dial/digital caliper.
    Last edited by uscra112; 05-17-2021 at 01:59 AM.
    Cognitive Dissident

  20. #20
    Boolit Grand Master Bazoo's Avatar
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    Well, I have an update. I found a thread that had a reference to preening the end of the lever to increase the length, and I did just that. I thought it over a while. Figured I have nothing to lose especially since I have two levers. I heated the end to maybe 400 degrees to help it move, laid it on my sledge and tapped the end with my hammer til it measured .010 longer.

    Now my headspace is so tight it won’t close on the cartridge I measured at .043. So all I have to do is sand it home the lever end until I get it where I want it. I’m thinking about buying a go gauge to headspace it but I might go ahead and just use some cartridges. If I can find one that’s .045 it’ll be just right.

    Anyways. I’m excited to have made some progress. I’ve been thinking it through and researching the problem and possible cures for a while. I happened onto a thread at marlin owners that mentions if you don’t need much, peening the lever is a possible solution, and by golly it’s going to work out perfect I think.

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BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check