Nazi marked Astra

[Battis]

A few weeks ago I saw an Astra 300 (.380) at a local small shop. The price was good - under $400. I went home, thought about it, then called a few days later to see if it was still there. It was, but at a price of $1200. Why the increase? It's Nazi marked, they said. I went back and looked at the gun recently, and sure enough, barely visible with a magnifier, was a small, faint, Waffenamt (eagle) mark that they had missed. Even the salesperson had to search for it. But, it is Nazi marked, I guess, and they can, and should, charge what they think the gun is worth. At $1200 - not for me.
Would that be enough of a mark to satisfy a collector?

I did some research and it seems that collectors also go by the serial number range, so maybe that answers my question.

[Bigslug]

"This gun was issued to Hermann Goering's father's, brother's, nephew's, cousin's former room mate!"

"So what does that make it?"

"Absolutely nothing!" (Apologies to Mel Brooks )

Found a link to one on GB that had started at $300 and sold recently for just under a grand. According to the seller's description, the Reich bought 63,000 of them - probably just to fill the desperate need for anything that would shoot. Proof, I suppose, that the most feared regime of the age couldn't get organized enough to internally supply it's officers with a standardized belly gun. Dunno. . .if all one wants is a .380 for practical use, the modern options are typically recoil-operated instead of blow back and as such kick less, and often being polymer-framed, weigh less and rust less.

[Thumbcocker]

The Third Reich has been overly glamorize in the efficiency department. Their supply and logistics was a total cluster, although Speergot things a bit better organized. The Whermacht grabbed anything that would go bang and issued it. Pistols of multiple calibers and multiple makes were acquired and issued. Polish and Czech pistols remained in production and were issued. It seems front line units were a bit better but not a whole lot. Soviet equipment was used a lot SVT's 120 mm mortars, anti tank guns etc. World War 2 Germany was hardly a model of efficiency.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

I'm sort of an Astra collector. I have 400s and 600s, but no 300. Your experience at the LGS was not unreasonable. The 300s were issued to the Luftwaffe for pilot's personal side arms. The value of $1,200 is a little high, but not much. The Waffenamt markings and serial number ranges for Nazi-associated Astra pistols is well known and documented, and pistols falling into these ranges are worth 3-4 times what the unmarked specimens go for.

DG

[Battis]

I'm not looking at the gun because I want a .380 - I just like collecting old guns. I have an Astra 400, a few Mauser pistols, P38, Reichrevolver, etc. Out of curiosity, I'll check the serial number. I still wouldn't be tempted to pay that price, even if it falls in the Nazi range. Just curious. I should have grabbed it when it was under $400. Nice looking gun.

[Texas by God]

Those Astras ( 300, 400, and 600) are built as well as ANY other pistol of their time period. I have owned several 400s and a couple of 600s- but never got the 7.65 300 that I want.
Too bad you missed that deal at $400!

Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk

[onelight]

The prices for collectibles are beyond my understanding look at what some of the old loading gear is going for .
And I would think any marked WW2 guns and gear would have a large market so worth more than it's worth

[Battis]

I found a site that sells Nazi metal stamps. How would the eagle look on my Colt cap and ball?

[Der Gebirgsjager]

1968, I believe, I went to the Vallejo, CA gun show with a (sort of) friend. He had two Japanese Type 14 Nambu pistols for trading material, which at the time were plentiful and inexpensive. In fact, the San Francisco Gun Exchange had about a 4'x8' area on one of their walls just covered with Nambus, and a sign in the middle of the display that said "Take Your Pick--$28".

Anyway, this fellow had two Japanese character metal stamps that he had acquired from an unknown source. I asked him what the characters meant, and he had no idea at all, but proceeded to stamp each pistol with one of the stamps--or maybe both--I don't really remember. Well, it was a huge show in several buildings, so upon arriving we went our separate ways, agreeing to meet for Lunch. At lunchtime he no longer had the pistols having traded them to a collector for a very nice antique Winchester '94.
When we met again later in the afternoon for the trip home he had a nice .38 Special revolver and a very fancy tooled leather saddle.

Somewhere there's probably a Nambu collector with a couple of pistols that are stamped "Public Restroom" or something else as ridiculous.

DG

[Winger Ed.]

If that pistol was in the case so cheap at first, the seller didn't know its value either.

They work on some sort of percentage mark up.
So the shop bought it in as just another pocket pistol of no particular value, then figured out what it was really worth.
The shop hit a home run on that one!

[rintinglen]

I'd do a heck of a lot of research before I'd pay big bucks for a "Nazi" marked Astra. There was a cottage industry back in the 60's and 70"s stamping Nazi markings on various pistols. CZ-27's, Radoms, Browning Hi-powers, and various other semi auto pistols got "drafted" into Nazi markings adding 10 to $50 to the price. I personally saw a John Inglis BHP with faked Nazi markings. In the case of the Astra 300, just over half of the 150,000+ of the total manufactured were sold to Germany between 1941 and 1944, so you have a slightly better than 50/50 shot.

[Battis]

Somewhere there's probably a Nambu collector with a couple of pistols that are stamped "Public Restroom" or something else as ridiculous.

That's funny.

A few years ago I bought a Walther P38 that had a bunch of markings (at a decent price). From info on this and one other forum it was determined that the gun was made by the Germans, then the French took over the factory at the end of the war and assembled the gun, then it was sold to, and used by, the Austrian police. So, it has Nazi, French and Austrian markings. None of those markings added any real value to the gun. The Nazis made it but never assembled or used it.

[9.3X62AL]

A Nazi or other proofmark might add some cachet to a given example, I have a few such war toys in the safe. Those variables add to the "Nice to know" part of ownership, but since they are unlikely to be sold whatever price boost they might enable is of no consequence to me. Milsurps are fun and often affordable to run with castings, and that is what most of my firearms get fed--home-cast bullets in home-rolled ammunition.

[Gamsek]

I still shoot with mine, made in 1942 according to letter N in serial number

[Battis]

.32 or .380?

[Gamsek]

.32 or .380?

My is 9kurz, short, 9x17=.380

[pietro]

A few weeks ago I saw an Astra 300 (.380) at a local small shop. The price was good - under $400.

I went home, thought about it, then called a few days later to see if it was still there.

It was, but at a price of $1200.

A classic instance of snooze/lose...… BT, DT, once upon a time. (but, once was enough to learn the lesson)

One never knows when a bargain can be had, so it pays to do homework on whatever one's interest is in before looking.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

It is true that fakery in WW II pistols was at one time rampant. I only have one, a Star Model B, that is suspect. Spain had a good thing going in WW II and not only sold pistols to Germany, but to their allies as well. The Star B was sold in a sizeable contract to Bulgaria. There were also some B Models sold to Germany, and the serial number ranges are well known. Even today guns from the Bulgarian contract will turn up with a waffenamt mark on the right rear of the frame, about where a right side ambidextrous safety would be if there was one. The waffenamt markings almost always had a tiny number beneath the stylized eagle identifying the inspector or inspection facility. The inspectors were very careful to put the mark in the exact same spot as close as humanly possible, bearing in mind that they were hand stamped, so a little variation is acceptable; but these are usually poorly applied and in the wrong location. Same general area, but not with the precision of the German stamp. The ones applied by the German inspectors are evenly stamped and quite legible, and the phony stamps are often lightly stamped, sometimes only half an impression, and/or illegible. Additionally, the serial numbers are out of the known range of German sales. It seems to be a well known fact in the world of advanced collectors (of which I am not one) that some unethical person, and they claim to know who it was, imported the Bulgarian Star B pistols and applied the phony stamp to increase their value by about 400%.

I purchased a particular Star B because it was in unusually nice condition and the seller noted that it was "Nazi stamped", but did not make any claims as to its authenticity and it sold for about the going price. When I received it I found that it had a spread winged eagle standing on a swastika on the left side of the frame just forward of the slide release. If spurious it was a good job, as it did not appear to be newly applied and had finish in the impression. It is a couple of hundred numbers above the last wartime Model Bs sold to Germany, and I like to tell myself that perhaps it was a private purchase. Not at all impossible, as the Officers of several armies have been required or allowed to purchase their duty weapons privately. Even U.S. Officer have chosen to purchase their own back in the 1911 days.

When the war was nearing its end the Germans were unable to receive the second contract for Astra pistols (Model 600) due to the presence of US. troops in southern France. After the war they took delivery of Astra and Star B pistols for use by their Border Patrol troops, and both pistols can be found with markings from those organizations, usually on the front of the grip frame. Frankly, though, I've never understood why the ownership stamp of a bunch of barbarians would increase values so out of proportion. True, such markings establish a piece's place in history, but no one gets so excited about a "U.S. Property" marking, a Soviet hammer and sickle, or a British broad arrow. In fact, these markings are expected.

On the Astra 400 pistols, the early production in the 20,000 serial number range, in addition to the Astra logo stamped on all of them some are found with a crown, top front of the slide just to the rear of the muzzle, between the muzzle and the Astra logo, which indicates that they were made for the Spanish Govt. which at the time was a monarchy. When I attended a gunsmithing school in the early '80s a friend asked if I had a rebluing project that he might do toward graduation requirements. I had an early Astra 400 with the crown, but it was kind of faint. He asked if I wanted to leave it on or buff it off, and not knowing what it was or what I was doing at the time I told him to buff it off for a nice, smooth appearance. That was.....stupid! But, since then, with many passing years, I acquired another with the crown and stamped much more deeply than the first. Then, along came the Spanish Civil War, and the Nationalists (Franco) captured the Astra Factory and eliminated the crown marking, although it had likely been discontinued before that. The Astra logo was always present, but eliminated in later 600 production.



Crownless Astra 400 Two Star Model B pistols, top one has Nazi eagle stamped in front of slide stop.

DG

[Battis]

When I first saw the Astra 300, I was in the process of buying a Mauser .25, which turned out to be a great choice. The single Nazi mark on the Astra was very very faint. Who knows. I should get the serial number and check it.
I bought an Astra 400 a few years ago for under $400 and it came with a hundred or so vintage rounds. Every round was a dud (Berdan primers gone bad), but I pulled the bullets and reloaded them.
As far as snoozing and losing - I was at a different store a month ago and in the case they had a used repro Colt Army .44 (Pietta) for $125. Good deal. But, to get waited on in this store, you have to get a ticket from a dispenser on the wall. I walked over, pulled the sticker (number 32) then went back to the case. Five minutes and the gun was gone. #31 got it. He said to me, "How do you load these things?" Oh well.