Fair distribution of shooting supplies

[dtknowles]

Sorry, not true. Name me one thing the US govt fuses orices on?

Milk

https://www.dairyreporter.com/Articl...-moooovements#

My state controls the price of cigarettes

https://atc.louisiana.gov/tobacco-mi...nformation.php

The Federal Government sets the prices for medical care provided by Doctors who accept Medicaid and Medicare.

I am sure there are more.

Understand, I am not saying this is bad or without reason. I am just saying that is the way it is. In the U.S. there are other forces than supply and demand that set prices. We don't have a free market we have a loosely regulated and government manipulated market. Tariffs and subsidies are another way the government manipulates prices and demand.

Tim

[dtknowles]

I understand your dislike for government intrusion into the lives of the people but any form of government is going to include some restrictions. The total absence of all government intrusion would be anarchy.

Adding taxes to some item or some transaction doesn't destroy the existence of a free market, nor does it "control" the price of that item. It increases the price of that item but it doesn't set the price of that item.
As for laws that restrict the sale of some items, those laws may intrude upon your definition of a totally free market but they do not eliminate the existence of a free market.

Laws setting the minimum age to enter into a contract, prevent a 7 year old from obligating himself to a $400,000 loan at 39% interest. That is generally an acceptable intrusion into the free market.
Setting a minimum age to purchase alcohol is an intrusion into the free market but it's generally accepted in our society.
Maintaining control over the production of Sarin gas or Plutonium 239, is an intrusion into your definition of a "free market".

By your definition, free markets do not exist anywhere in the world that is controlled by some form of government.
Trafficking of Cocaine or Heroin, trafficking of stolen property, trafficking humans - those are probably the only types of "free markets" that exist in the modern world.
The existence of a government, by its very nature, is going to result in some loss of freedom by those governed.

So, I disagree that the existence of an excise tax on ammunition equates to the government "controlling the price" of that ammunition. It adds to the price and I don't care for the tax; but it doesn't eliminate the free market.

I see now where we disagree, you think if prices are not fixed that the market is free where I think if the government manipulates the market in any way that the markets are not free. I am fine with agreeing that you can define it your way but I will continue to define it my way.

Tim

[dtknowles]

" ....I did not say that the government should not intervene in markets. I was just pointing out that they do and thus the market is not actually free..."

I do not agree that ANY government intervention, regardless of how trivial, eliminates the existence of a free market.
A free market exists when there is private ownership of property and private individuals can buy, possess and sell that property. It may not be as free as you would like it to be, but the existence of some small amount of government intrusion does not kill off all possibility that a free market exists.

Brown-Forman, the owners of the Jack Daniels brand and many other whiskey and wine producers, pay enormous taxes. They pay federal excise taxes, import taxes, various state alcohol and sales taxes. They pay real estate taxes, fuel taxes, capitol gains taxes and countless other taxes. They are heavily regulated and face severe civil and criminal penalties if they violate those laws. And yet, they still own their products and sell them throughout the world. Government intervention may not be welcome but it does not equal the elimination of a free market. Brown-Forman made over 3 billion dollars in revenue last year.

You may not like the fact that the government taxes ammunition but the fact that the government taxes ammunition doesn't mean the government controls the price of that product. Companies manufacture ammunition within the U.S. and sell their product on the open market here. Companies import ammunition from foreign countries and sell that ammunition on the open market here.

The government banned imports of ammo from Russia.

Tim

[Petrol & Powder]

And that changes what?

[Murphy]

This shortage has played havoc on businesses that sell supplies. I don't care if you're in rural Mississippi, or live smack in the middle of a city of 500,000 population. When even the largest outfitters online are 'Out Of Stock', pretty much sums up how bad things are regarding ammunition and reloading supplies.

Limits on quantity in regards to buying ammunition, primers, powders...etc, are the seller's right. It is their business and no one can tell them what is fair, and what isn't. Many, are wondering where their business is headed and how much longer they can hold on before closing their doors. While some are worried about where they're going to get their next shooting supplies, these people are worried about where are they going to start over and in what business?

And last, but far from least. Either you can afford recreational shooting, or you can't. I feel for those who were just beginning their casting and reloading hobby and that's about the only ones.


Murphy

[WheelgunConvert]

That is the new F bomb.

Right in there with equitable, diversity and favoritism.

[Petrol & Powder]

Why would a merchant NOT want to sell all of his stock quickly?
It's not the seller's responsibility to dole out his merchandise slowly and to as many customers as possible. It is the merchant's job to convert their products into profit.

The faster the merchant turns that stock into profit the less chance he will lose it to theft, fire or some other loss. The faster he will have capitol with which to replace that stock and room to store/display that new stock.

Businesses don't exist to provide goods and services - businesses exist to MAKE MONEY.

[onelight]

The more traffic the store owner can get through his store the the moser of his inventory he can sell .
I have no idea how many purchases I have made because I go to the shoot at the range twice a week .
I always walk through the store to see what they have when I go to shoot .
If I was dependent on new ammunition I would be on the phone several times a week to see if any of the stores had any if they did I would swing buy and get some. There is always I a chance I might see a gun I like or a holster or cleaning supplies . He is going to sell all the ammunition he can get anyway but if he gets 20 people in to buy 1 box he has a lot better chance of selling other things than than if he sells the first guy 20 box's .
He has set overhead and payroll so it saves him nothing to sell it all to one guy .
More profit and better customer service to get 20 people in.
His store is not a gun show table where he can go home when the table is cleared.

[Petrol & Powder]

........ He is going to sell all the ammunition he can get anyway but if he gets 20 people in to buy 1 box he has a lot better chance of selling other things than than if he sells the first guy 20 box's ...........

His goal isn't to generate traffic in the store. His goal is to turn merchandise into profit. Customer traffic is only a method to achieve the goal and its a method not needed if the merchandise is selling anyway.

Those 20 people are going to show up looking for that ammo whether that ammo is there or not. If the store limits the customer to one box of ammo, there's NO guarantee the customer will purchase that ammo and something else.

The ultimate goal isn't to generate traffic, the ultimate goal is to make money. There's no use in generating traffic in your store if the people don't buy anything.

The store doesn't exist to serve customers. The store exists to MAKE MONEY.
The customers don't have an obligation to keep the store in business, the customers simply wish to acquire some item.

[Petrol & Powder]

If you had 20 cords of firewood for sale in your front yard and someone arrived and offered to buy it all, and for more than your asking price; would you limit the amount you would sell to him?

Your goal isn't to make sure everyone has firewood. Your goal is to turn that firewood into money.

[dtknowles]

...The store doesn't exist to serve customers. The store exists to MAKE MONEY.
The customers don't have an obligation to keep the store in business, the customers simply wish to acquire some item.

With that attitude, unless you hide it will drive away customers. I often support local businesses so that they will remain open even if it costs me a little more. You don't seem to understand balance or community.

Tim

[dtknowles]

If you had 20 cords of firewood for sale in your front yard and someone arrived and offered to buy it all, and for more than your asking price; would you limit the amount you would sell to him?

Your goal isn't to make sure everyone has firewood. Your goal is to turn that firewood into money.

What you talk about only makes sense for people with a single product or a limited product and no or little overhead. If you have a store that sells ammo and other things but you are getting a lot less ammo to sell then you will want to focus on selling other things. Some local stores that used to sell ammo have stopped and turned that shelf space over to other products.

[bangerjim]

It's the same old story down thru time:

Those that have the money have the goodies.

Is it fair? Probably not, if you one of the have-not's.

But "them's the facts Jack".

Has always been, and always will be.

[W.R.Buchanan]

The only "Fair Way" to dispense reloading supplies is to limit purchasers to X number of items. My bro in law had been looking for 209 primers so he can start loading shotshells. He found some at a local gun store yesterday.

They would only let him buy 200 primers.

That is the only way you can do it fairly since if you had a decent stock someone would want to come in an buy it all.

How many gun shows have you walked into seeing guys with hand trucks loaded with cases of primers going out. Hoarders will buy up everything, but what really pisses me off is when they turn around and double or triple the price and resell everything they just bought.

WE saw lots of that with .22 LR ammo a while back, and Walmart was getting bought out by the same people every day they put some out. They had workers telling them when the shelves were being stocked so they could scoop it all up!

those people suck!

Randy

[Petrol & Powder]

..........

How many gun shows have you walked into seeing guys with hand trucks loaded with cases of primers going out. Hoarders will buy up everything, but what really pisses me off is when they turn around and double or triple the price and resell everything they just bought.

....

That's their prerogative. If you don't like it, buy the items yourself. It's called capitalism.

[onelight]

Those 20 people are going to show up looking for that ammo whether that ammo is there or not. If the store limits the customer to one box of ammo, there's NO guarantee the customer will purchase that ammo and something else.

The store doesn't exist to serve customers. The store exists to MAKE MONEY.
The customers don't have an obligation to keep the store in business, the customers simply wish to acquire some item.

I am not talking about fair or obligation to customers . I am talking about good business and repeat business .
Getting people in the door is the first step in making a profit in a brick and mortar store.
They use advertising , matches , giveaways and just about anything they can think of to get people in the door.
It costs them nothing to get people in for a box of ammo . Just smart business to take advantage of that part of this crummy situation. Again nothing to do with fair . He can't sell range time without something for most people to shoot . He will sell you an extra box of ammo if you buy a gun.
I buy guns there without even looking elsewhere very often because he has never screwed me around.
If you think being courteous and reasonable has nothing to do with repeat business you are mistaken.

[Conditor22]

At my local sportsman's & Cabelas high price resellers show up 2-3 hours early on delivery day to get their 1-2 bricks of primers to re-sell at exorbitant prices.

I think they should limit people to 2 bricks per month.

[dtknowles]

At my local sportsman's & Cabelas high price resellers show up 2-3 hours early on delivery day to get their 1-2 bricks of primers to re-sell at exorbitant prices.

I think they should limit people to 2 bricks per month.

I am guessing the same thing happens where I shop. I don't know because I don't go early on any day. They never have anything for me to buy. They don't even have air soft pellets. I don't need anything but the air soft pellets so I just walk in check it out and then leave. I am not the type to buy stuff that I did not come to get. I am looking to buy powder when I am there too but not just any powder not that they have any powder.

Tim

[Cosmic_Charlie]

I can reload and shoot for a couple years on the supplies I have. And then if i need to i can start shooting my factory ammo. Don't have any factory .38 or .44 pistol rounds though. Or lgs has been limiting primers to 200 per customer per day and i see no problem with that. It's called rationing and a time honored practice during times of scarcity. I do wish the ammo manufacturers would let some powder and primers out for the reloaders though. If i were running Federal i would would make sure the handful of full service gunshops in the state had primers and powder to sell.

[reddog81]

Sell at market prices. Selling below market causes panic buying and allows scalpers to jump in, clear the shelves and drives sales through third party channels. Setting limits just encourages scalpers to bring family and friends along to wipe out the supply. If stores raised prices to the point where supply and demand were equal we could still find primer and powders on shelves right now. You'd be paying more, but the people willing to pay the going rate would be able to buy what they are looking for.

Empty store shelves causes panic buying by encouraging people to hoard anything they can find even if it's not something they will ever use.

If sellers did this the downside would be half the posts on these forums would be whining about gouging...