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Thread: 460 cases for 45 Colt shot loads

  1. #1
    Boolit Master


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    460 cases for 45 Colt shot loads

    I have some 460 S&W cases coming to make some 45 Colt shotshells. I have a question about the sizing down process to get the brass to fit into the chamber throats. These will be shot in a Uberti SA. From the way the sized cast bullets push through the throats, they measure approximately .453. The most popular dies are the 44 Special/44 Magnum. I measured the neck wall thickness of a couple .44 cases, and they measured .012. So, if you take the .430 bullet diameter + .012 + .012 for the two neck thicknesses, that adds up to .454 diameter.
    According to the book specs, the neck of the .44 case is .456. So, my question is, is the necked down 460 case going to be a little bit of a force fit into the the .45 throats. Or, does the .44 sizer die neck the case down a little smaller than the books .456 measurements? I haven't gotten my .44 dies yet, so I have no way of knowing. Any help is greatly appreciated.
    If a 41 won't stop it, I wouldn't bet my life on a 44.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    I resized a 44 mag case with my rcbs carbide sizer, and the case measured about .451-.452.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master RKJ's Avatar
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    I took some 454 cases I had and resized them with 45 Colt dies for the same purpose. I didn't check the sizing but they slide in and out of my 25-7 just fine.

  4. #4
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    I just shoot .44-40 shot in my .45 Colts.

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  5. #5
    Boolit Buddy memtb's Avatar
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    I’m using 444 Marlin Mag cases in my 460, and have similar issue. I merely ran the 444 case partially into a 44 mag sizing die. Essentially it looks a little like a bottle-neck rifle case. You don’t have to go very far....just enough to clear throat! I can’t back my 44 mag dies far enough, so I have to short-stroke the lever.Though I haven’t done it yet, I will make a spacer-block to stop the handle stroke at the proper point.....so all bottle-necks are identical! memtb
    You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel

    “LETS GO BRANDON”

  6. #6
    Boolit Master


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    Thanks fellas, that looks promising. Now I just need to get my .44 dies.
    Much obliged.
    If a 41 won't stop it, I wouldn't bet my life on a 44.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master


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    One other question. Is it necessary to drill the flash holes a little larger in the 460 cases, to keep the primers from backing out when fired and binding up the cylinder?
    If a 41 won't stop it, I wouldn't bet my life on a 44.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master dougader's Avatar
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    I have partially sized the top end of 454 cases with 44 mag dies to use as longer shot shells in my Montado, which has a shorter cylinder than the large frame guns.

    A couple things: (1) My 454 brass was brittle and I needed to temper the mouths or they tended to split. (2) Take care to center the brass well or it can get wonky and size on one side instead of equally all the way around.

    I did not need to drill out the flash holes in 454, but they took small pistol primers fine.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master


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    Dougader, thank you for the tips.
    If a 41 won't stop it, I wouldn't bet my life on a 44.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master RKJ's Avatar
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    I didn’t put this in my 1st post, I used hot glue to seal the brass when they were loaded..

  11. #11
    Boolit Buddy memtb's Avatar
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    In my case (no pun intended) I used 2 1/2” shot shell load data....so there was sufficient pressure (while low in my handgun) to keep the primers happy. I suspect that, provided you do not load down dramatically) primer “back-out” shouldn’t be an issue! JMO memtb
    You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel

    “LETS GO BRANDON”

  12. #12
    Boolit Buddy memtb's Avatar
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    I did the same......actually, my wife did the sealing! I used an inverted 44 gas check over the shot, lightly crimped.....then the hot glue to seal! memtb
    You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel

    “LETS GO BRANDON”

  13. #13
    Boolit Master


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    Thanks fellas. Very appreciative of all your experienced knowledge on the subject. I have 44 dies coming from JonB.
    If a 41 won't stop it, I wouldn't bet my life on a 44.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master


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    I received the .44 dies from JonB last Thursday. Thank you Jon, nice dies. I was out of town until the Sunday after. This Monday, I started the procedure for my 45 Colt shot loads from my 460 S&W brass. I did not anneal the brass. I bought a small Rigid tubing cutter from Home Depot.
    First, I trimmed the 460 brass approximately .110. After that, I trimmed and squared (Forster trimmer) the cases to a length of 1.650. Chamfered the necks inside and out. Cases had been cleaned and sized, so I used the .44 carbide sizer to size down the neck to a length that would allow the case to fully seat in the 45 Colt chamber. I then seated large rifle primers in 6 cases. I used my Little Dandy with the #12 rotor to drop 7.5 grains of HP-38. I seated two, .030 card wads I punched out, over the powder. I then made a cylinder from .0025 tracing vellum (from my paper patching days) that measured .900 in length. I glued the overlapping ends with super glue. This cylinder fit perfectly into the case, about .100 from the top. With trial & error, I dropped in the #9 shot until it came up to the proper height, and still have enough room for a gas check cap. The proper shot payload weighed 225 grains. I then capped the shot with one .410 plain base gas check (cup facing down). I used a Lee .410 sizer die with the beveled entrance, to put a small crimp over the gas check, and sealed the perimeter with super glue. Went to the range yesterday (Wednesday) to try them out. At 20',the load patterned a very nice pattern that no grouse, quail would ever escape. At 10 yards, still deadly but spread out some. Still probably about 75% kill ratio. At 6', a very tight snake load of 5". Guessing ideal snake range about 10-12 feet. The tracing vellum cylinder worked absolutely great. No barrel leading. There was the issue of case seat-back upon first firing, which would be the fire-forming. The cylinder was hard to rotate by just pulling the hammer back. It needed help by rotating the cylinder with the off hand. I am going to drop back to the #11 rotor, and try using g a large pistol primer, as the large rifle primer protruded about .001 above the back of the case. The large pistol primers will seat a little deeper, and will have room to re-set flush at firing. Range report to follow.
    Last edited by littlejack; 04-22-2021 at 03:36 PM.
    If a 41 won't stop it, I wouldn't bet my life on a 44.

  15. #15
    Boolit Buddy memtb's Avatar
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    littlejack, it appears that you’re well on your way to having a successful shot cartridge! Congratulations! memtb
    You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel

    “LETS GO BRANDON”

  16. #16
    Boolit Master


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    memtb
    As you stated in your first post, I had to figure out a spacer block to stop the ram at the same stopping point. I used a piece of 3/8" square stock to space between the linkage and the block that pushes the ram up. It stops the ram at almost the perfect height. I may try something just a little thicker to shorten up the case neck section. Looks like i'm really gonna like this project when I get it perfected.
    Thank you all again for your input.
    Rrgards
    If a 41 won't stop it, I wouldn't bet my life on a 44.

  17. #17
    Boolit Buddy memtb's Avatar
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    littlejack, You’re most welcome, I’m glad it has worked for you! Having good shot cartridges certainly increases the versatility of your handgun! While I haven’t really put mine to use.....I’ve got’em when I want/need them!

    I love the versatility they add to my 460. With cast bullet loads from mild to wild, along with the shot cartridges.....I’m pretty much got everything covered from small game/vermin with the shot cartridges, to anything I’ll ever hunt in NA inside of 150 yards! memtb
    You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel

    “LETS GO BRANDON”

  18. #18
    Boolit Master


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    So yesterday, I built some more (4) shot loads to try out. I did do a little tweaking on a few things, now that the cases were fireformed. I sized the cases with the 45 Colt sizer die. Then used the .44 sizer die to bump back the fireformed shoulder to clear the cylinder and throat transition in the 45 Colt cylinder. The fireformed case also allowed for a little more internal volume. I did switch from large rifle primers, to large pistol primers. Hopefully, they light off consistantly, as the 460 primer pockets are deeper to fit the taller large rifle primers. Hoping to get the large pistol primers to fully seat flush upon case seat-back when fired and not bind up the cylinder. Next, I did switch out the Little Dandy #12 rotor, for the #11 rotor to drop the powder charge weight. But, it only dropped the charge weight of the HP-38 .3 grains, from 7.5 to 7.2. I switched out the over powder wad from two .032 cards, to one .045 card. The fire forming, powder weight drop, and the thinner wad, allowed for another 10 grains of #9 shot, which brought the payload up to 235 grains from 225 grains. Again, I used the tracing vellum tube around the shot to prevent any leading issue. They are a little tedious to make, but they work really well. I won't be able to test these for a few days, but I will get back with a range report.
    Last edited by littlejack; 04-24-2021 at 02:15 PM.
    If a 41 won't stop it, I wouldn't bet my life on a 44.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master


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    Last week, I loaded and tested some more of the 460 shotshell loads. I dropped the powder charge to 6.6 grains of HP-38 (#10 rotor).
    I did find a burr around the firing pin hole, that was causing some of the cylinder drag after firing. I polished it down, and it did stop some of the problem. There is still some drag. I dont know how to get rid of that. I tried LR primers, LP primers, and both are about the same for drag. Dropping the powder charge didn't seem to do much good. The bottle neck case would be the main issue for the case being pushed back, fire formed, and holding that position.
    Tight groups are great. If I was living in a snake infested area, I would have another cylinder fit to the revolver, and the chambers bored straight through with no throats.
    If a 41 won't stop it, I wouldn't bet my life on a 44.

  20. #20
    Boolit Master
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    Did you enlarge the primer hole?

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check