Reloading UKTitan ReloadingRepackboxLee Precision
Inline FabricationADvertise hereRotoMetals2

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 21 to 28 of 28

Thread: Uberti/USFA single action 45's top end?

  1. #21
    Boolit Man
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    77
    Points all taken.. Larry & Outpost alike.

    I hadn't considered the old balloon head brass likely playing its part in that old '58 cast manual that says 7.5grains unique. That point makes good sense now that you mention it. I believe I will make a "consideration" note inside that manual of mine for future... wherever & for whoever ends up with it after me down the road.

    I'll work to 6.5 once I get going on this myself, see what the chrony says and keep that number in mind for tops far as the auto-rim load will go.

    And to Outpost specifically.. those rockwell numbers are interesting to note too. I have had a few measured of my own, Colt single actions, and they've run anything from 14 to 28 themselves ... the raw steel below case their hardening. Hardened, I had a privately operating metal-guy claim his own three-time sophisticated set of heat treat brought one particular frame to 38, but I don't know whether that was surface measured after casing, or if it was an alteration to the actual metal composition and he meant the steel for a considerable depth below. He was an unusual kind of genius, the kind that are so smart they're hard to talk to.. if you know what I mean. Odd duck to say the least. I didn't want to throw the lot of what he said out the opposite ear after he told me, because Dick Casull is said to have done similar in the 50's. So who knows. Makes for good conversation. These rockwell numbers and steel datas aren't widely discussed, so some guys following this thread may find that all of value too.

  2. #22
    Boolit Master

    ddixie884's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Avery, Texas
    Posts
    947
    Quote Originally Posted by ranchman View Post
    Points all taken.. Larry & Outpost alike.

    I hadn't considered the old balloon head brass likely playing its part in that old '58 cast manual that says 7.5grains unique. That point makes good sense now that you mention it. I believe I will make a "consideration" note inside that manual of mine for future... wherever & for whoever ends up with it after me down the road.

    I'll work to 6.5 once I get going on this myself, see what the chrony says and keep that number in mind for tops far as the auto-rim load will go.

    And to Outpost specifically.. those rockwell numbers are interesting to note too. I have had a few measured of my own, Colt single actions, and they've run anything from 14 to 28 themselves ... the raw steel below case their hardening. Hardened, I had a privately operating metal-guy claim his own three-time sophisticated set of heat treat brought one particular frame to 38, but I don't know whether that was surface measured after casing, or if it was an alteration to the actual metal composition and he meant the steel for a considerable depth below. He was an unusual kind of genius, the kind that are so smart they're hard to talk to.. if you know what I mean. Odd duck to say the least. I didn't want to throw the lot of what he said out the opposite ear after he told me, because Dick Casull is said to have done similar in the 50's. So who knows. Makes for good conversation. These rockwell numbers and steel datas aren't widely discussed, so some guys following this thread may find that all of value too.
    True that.............
    JMHO-YMMV
    dd884
    gary@2texastrucks.com
    Gary D. Peek

  3. #23
    Boolit Grand Master
    9.3X62AL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Redlands, NorKifornia
    Posts
    11,506
    My 45 Colts are Rugers, and my sweet spot with those is 1000-1025 FPS from the 7.5" barrel of the BisHawk. This happens with either 10.0 grains of Unique or 11.0 grains of Herco. DO NOT USE THESE LOADS IN COLT SAA, NEW SERVICE, S&W 25-SERIES, OR COLT SAA REPROS. These are not full-snort Ruger-level loads, but are plenty for hunting most game that doesn't bite or claw you to pieces. Lyman #454424 is my usual bullet here, and #454190 gets a play from time to time. The 4-5/8" barrel loses about 100 FPS with these loads.

    45 ACP or Auto Rim gets any one of several Usual Suspect powders. 185 grain bullets see 1000 FPS; 200 grainers get 900-925 FPS; 230 grain bullets get 850-875 FPS, which is what my old shop's carry loads achieve in 4.4" barrels (SIG P-220). In my Gold Cup (5") barrel, these loads (WWB 230 JHP) get about 895-905 FPS. They are not listed as +P in the literature.
    I don't paint bullets. I like Black Rifle Coffee. Sacred cows are always fair game. California is to the United States what Syria is to Russia and North Korea is to China/South Korea/Japan--a Hermit Kingdom detached from the real world and led by delusional maniacs, an economic and social basket case sustained by "foreign" aid so as to not lose military bases.

  4. #24
    Boolit Master



    Tar Heel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Raleigh NC
    Posts
    1,012
    Thickness does not necessarily equate to strength.

  5. #25
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Cedar Park, TX
    Posts
    303
    Quote Originally Posted by Tar Heel View Post
    Thickness does not necessarily equate to strength.
    Think of any of the cows on The View.

  6. #26
    Boolit Master 35 Whelen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    North Central Texas
    Posts
    1,387
    Quote Originally Posted by bedbugbilly View Post
    elmacgyver0 - interesting question and interesting answers - but I am similar to you. I don't have 44mag but do have a Uberti Cattlemam 45 Colt and a Uberti Bisley 357. While I have loaded and shot some mid-range 357 in the Bisley, I have never found the need to push the limit of either revolver as they shoot well with my mid-range loads (using Unique, Red Dot, Green Dot or BE (BE in the Bisley). Most of my shooting is out to 50 yards and I get good performance and accuracy out of both revolvers and even with my poor eyesight, I can hit paper, cans, steel, etc. The critters I have taken with both revolvers (woodchucks, coons, possums, etc.) never knew if the cast boolit was flying at 500 fps or 800 fps. Like you . . . I am not being critical nor intend it to be that way - everybody has their own thing. If, however, I wanted to shoot hotter loads, I would seek out a handgun that was designed for it, such as one of the Ruger that take the Ruger only loads - rather than pushing a revolver to the intended limit or beyond. I do the same with my .36 and .44 cap and ball revolvers I shoot with Howell cylinders - they recommend keeping them under 850 fps and I have loads that shoot well, are accurate and will do what is needed fhat are under that limit.

    Once again, my comment are not meant to be critical as I think the OP asks a good questions and the answers sure provide some very interesting info. Thanks.
    I find these posts interesting and have never been able to figure out why shooters think Uberti's aren't designed for, say, .357 factory loads and factory level loads.

    C.I.P. (Europe's version of SAAMI) sets a MAP of 3100 bar for the .357 Magnum, which is just a smidge under 45,000 psi, just under 25% heavier than the MAP set by SAAMI. Add to this the fact that European produced .357's are required to be proofed at 1.30% of MAP (~56K psi in the case of the .357), I think it's pretty obvious the Italian revolvers are capable of handling loads far in excess of what we'll find in U.S. loading manuals or loads turned out by factories on US soil. Yet no one questions whether the Colt SA can handle .357 loads.

    Regarding the cylinder size question, the Uberti SA's cylinders are indeed about .020" larger in diameter than Colt's, while the distance from the center of the cylinder to the center of the chambers is the same as a Colt.

    Brian Pearce addressed this subject a couple of years ago in Handloader magazine (Mar-Apr 2017 if memory serves)-

    I have tested a number of Uberti cylinders and have found them to have considerable variance in their Rockwell hardness. Most manufactured since the late 1990s have
    tested at 34 and are constructed of quality 4130 series chrome-moly steel.

    The Uberti revolver features a more or less .020-inch larger diameter cylinder ( 1.670 inches) than the Colt SAA ( 1.650 inches); however, the distance from the axis of
    the cylinder and the center of the bore is the same. This adds significant steel to the outside of the cylinder, as well as over the bolt notch ( effectively doubling that thickness), which is the SAA pattern revolver's weak link. If your Uberti is of late manufacture, it will handle .45 Colt loads that generate similar pressures as .45 ACP factory loads
    that are industry rated at 21,000 psi, or 23,000 psi for +P loads.


    I drive a 3/4 ton Dodge with a 5.9L diesel because is great for pulling heavy trailers such as when I haul cattle to the sale or am hauling rolls of hay. But that doesn't mean I have to pull a loaded trailer everywhere. My wife drives an SUV capable of seating 6 passengers, but that doesn't mean she must carry six passengers everywhere she goes. One of my uncles, every 2 or 3 years, buys a new red Corvette capable of 150 mph, but he only drives them on Saturdays if it's not raining, and he doesn't have to drive 150 mph.

    One of my favorite and most accurate deer hunting revolvers is a 4 3/4" Uberti Frisco in 45 Colt and my hunting load is a 288 gr. SWC running just shy of 1000 fps. This load, although well over the prescribed 14K psi, will never wear the revolver out because I only hunt with it and use lighter loads for practice and plinking. Same with my Uberti Hombre, it's shoots the 358429 bullet wonderfully when loaded hot, but right now it's loaded with a Lyman 358477 over 6.0 grs. of Unique. I have a Flat Top Uberti in .44 Special and the load I used two seasons ago on a buck ran a 429244 243 gr. SWCHP 1105 fps, but for just shooting, 6.5 grs. of Unique under a 429421 are what the revolver sees the most of.

    It makes more sense for me personally to use light, handy revolvers and occasionally using heavy hunting loads in them, than carrying heavy, clunky revolvers and shooting mostly light loads in them. But, to each his own!

    35W
    "Only accurate rifles are interesting." -Col. Townsend Whelen.
    NRA Life Member
    Certified Texas Hunter Education Instructor

  7. #27
    Boolit Master

    ddixie884's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Avery, Texas
    Posts
    947
    Sounds like common sense to me.......
    JMHO-YMMV
    dd884
    gary@2texastrucks.com
    Gary D. Peek

  8. #28
    Boolit Grand Master
    rintinglen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Orange, VA NOW
    Posts
    5,138
    It makes more sense for me personally to use light, handy revolvers and occasionally using heavy hunting loads in them, than carrying heavy, clunky revolvers and shooting mostly light loads in them. But, to each his own!

    To me, this short paragraph completely and succinctly relates the great advantage of a "handy" revolver. Why carry iron you don't need when you are not going to use it?
    _________________________________________________It's not that I can't spell: it is that I can't type.

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check