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Thread: Dipping my toes into PCP Air Guns

  1. #121
    Boolit Buddy
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    Hope noone minds if i push on.



    The trigger group on these gen1 guns ain´t really adjustable. Well, took a look at it and decided i´d install some well placed M3 grubscrews.. so to centerpunch and...
    Us wary of heavy machinery have a nomer for Chinese material, we call it "chineseium" and that stuff is ALWAYS hardened til brittle.
    You guess it. Hit it with the centerpunch and the thing broke i half.
    Thank you very much.
    Well now. I own an ac/dc TIG welder and know how to swing that so a few mins later not only was the sear back together, it had the 2,5mm hole in it too that i tapped for an M3 grub.
    Presto. We were golden, and albeit this is by FAR a match trigger it still holds that being able to adjust sear vs hammer interaction goes a long way.
    In turn, in contrast to the stock setup, this way i retained the first stage of the trigger pull. Now.. true.. that needs a spring and i´ll look into that as we go.
    For now though, usable trigger.. CHECK!

    As i had the action apart i put the two hammer springs in the other way around, the softer one going in first - into a recess in the hammer, which sure cut down on hammer spring kinks. What i´m using ATM is a stock hammer spring for an FX Impact coupled with a way shorter generic one - to make up for the space within.
    That said.. well, read on...



    Yes. This el-cheapo PCP is coming along nicely and yes.. that there is my LabRadar. As you can see i replaced the scope once more, for a newer lit Tasco in 4-16*40, and that´ll fit the bill nicely.
    A long range PCP this will never be and "outrunning" 16 powers is a tall order.
    Ditto, as you can see, i opted to toss a small piece of Picatinny underneath there and indeed.. to go with the "absolute basic budget PCP" idea i torqed down a just as el-cheapo Harris bi-pod copy on there.
    Seeing how light the gun is and placement of the bi-pod it comes to a VERY stable rest as you shoot it, let me tell ya.



    Uhu. That´s an overly large can, it´s for the Hatsan really but as it sports a 1/2"UNF industry standard thread.. yeah well. It sure takes the bark out of the gun, seeing we try our ideas mostly indoors.



    TBH i´m even starting to find that dyed beech wood stock attractive. Traditional if ever..



    There i was, starting to sight this thing in while the LabRadar handed me numbers along the 960-970fps mark. In my book that´s quite respectable for a 22 gun shooting 25,4 grain slugs out of a 400 something millimeter barrel.
    In fact, question is if it hasn´t fit the bill even. A matter of judgement i guess, but it not only comes down to power. It certainly matters that the hollow point slugs used travel fast enough to expand on target and in turn it sure helps with an at least reasonable shot count.
    Something that to an extent is an issue at that power level coupled with a mere 100cc´s worth of air tank. I´ll get to that though..



    Indeed. "Chineseium". There i sat.. cocking the thing when i all of a sudden had the small bolt in my hand. Now.. that´s just plain wrong.
    True. I´ve increased cocking force by quite a bit, but hello. We´re still talking by hand vs a bolt out of "steel". To hell with it though so lathe time and made me a fresh bolt out of SIS-2172 steel.
    In short hindsight it might have been an idea to increase the threads from the stock M4 to M5.. but..
    Anyways.
    All good right?
    More than you´ll ever imagine.



    I guess we´re all aware of the idea of nodes and antinodes and quite honest i´d prefer to just toss that thing. However it DOES keep the air tank part of the gun in the stock.
    In stock form though, seeing the stuff i press fit on at the muzzle, it sure wouldn´t fit anymore so what i did was to cut the absolute top off of it.
    This left me with like a couple of "claws" still, and as these clamp down as you tighten the screw between the barrel n tank it performs what the untouched part does still.
    However!
    A long standing truth of these guns is that the gen1 guns at least are machined wrong why the barrel and tank differs vs each other in angle. Ie; that barrel band will pull the barrel DOWN vs the tank, which will of course have an impact and imply all sorts of issues.
    Then again.. there i was shooting right..



    ..and the truth is that it´s hard to argue with results. Now. Mind you. This particular gun sports a stock barrel that has seen some TLC no doubt, and time permitting will see even more.
    The flyer in turn is on me and that there is all in all 20 shots fired at a distance of approx 20 meters inside using either JSB King heavys of 25,4 grains or JSB Knock out slugs of 25,4 grains at the tune of 960-970fps.
    In short at the sunny side of 70 Joules. THAT is promising.. One strange thing is that how it prints on paper changed very little between the pellets and the slugs - which they almost always do at a greater span.

    I guess we´ll sort this as weather permits and ranges can be opened up a bit. Check to see what happens after 50 meters plus..
    None the less it´s hard to argue with results, and FOR a result!
    This thing shoots on par with my Impact for the love of.. Hotrods at their finest i believe cause this thing well shoot on par with guns 5 times the cost without breaking a sweat.
    Total investment thus far (i bought the gun used at approx 110€) comes in way under 200€!
    THAT`S a feat in my book. True. Been a bit of work, but it goes to show what can be done on a shoestring as long as you torq down on the correct bolts me thinks.

    As you can gather i really can´t be but happy with the net result here.

    One thing that i´ve come to regard as a drawback with this Artemis PR-900/ Diana Stromrider however is the mere lack of air tank volume.
    At "hand her all the onions" i get to refuel the thing often, and a larger tank would sure remedy that.
    Judgement call i guess cause i happen to like and enjoy what´s there in the pictures and the adoption of a say 400cc paintball tank with a reg would render that i´d have to cut into at least the fore end of the stock, and i´m not all to happy about that idea.
    From a weight and weight distribution POW though we can afford that install.
    The gun is featherweight as is so an added like 600-700 grams will amount to nothing.

    Seeing where we´re at though i´ve got no complaints per se. It shoots lights out at anything at 20 meters and does so with the little authority a "mere" el-cheapo 22cal PCP gun can. 70 Joules goes a loooong way in this case and will certainly suffice, and then some, as far as the pests intended.

    In short summary it stands here on its bi-pod getting handed layer after layer of linseed as is.. and will continue doing so until it´s filled up.

  2. #122
    Boolit Buddy
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    Moderator though.
    The one currently on there is designed for the Hatsan BT-65 and kind of comes across as a friggin GIANT on the minescule little Artemis carbine.



    So started turning the pts needed to fab a fresh one, just of WAY lesser diameter to make it go with the lines of the gun. Thus plan to use a sorts of baffling this time out, still such that it can´t safely be used on a powder burner though.
    That recess there made with an end mill is to make sure the thing seats specified 90 deg vs the line of fire as we torq the piece down on the muzzle end.



    Yup. The other end of it. Drilled and tapped 1/2" UNF all the way through.. giving thought to installing a plug with a 7mm through hole though that threads into the adapter.



    The adapter carries a step that fits snug into the aluminium tube i´m using. 32mm*2. Ie; 28mm inside diameter, which i hope will be enough to work this thing into dead quiet.

    Cause.. rats. "From a place you´ll never see, will come a sound you´ll never hear"

  3. #123
    Boolit Buddy
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    Right. Doing things yourself, the rewards are more than one. We´ve been on the topic of cans and this Artemis has made good use of the one i fabbed for the Hatsan gun, however.. the Hatsan wants it back right and the thing is in turn so large it friggin DWARFS the minescule little Artemis.
    ..which got me thinking...



    Cans of mine has thus far been exactly that. Silencers, as in for firearms, is considered way different why it is imperative to keep these builds such that their use on firearms is simply ruled out.
    Plastic and rag innards make sure of that.

    Dwarfs. Yeah. So i shrunk diameter from 55mm to 32, and that IS quite the leap. Cause see.. this time, baffle setup. But? Won´t that turn it into a silencer?
    Nope. Baffles out of POM/acetal plastics sure won´t take the pressures, fire or heat.. In fact putting one of these on a firearm is downright dangerous.

    Doing the calculations i came to rest on 6 chambers. Ie; 5 baffles. The 1st chamber being the largest then.



    To keep orifice diameters down things need to be concentric. Simple enough on a lathe with a dial indicator...
    (Btw,yes. Those are genuine Speedline center bolt DMT wheels out of magnesium for racing use (merc in this case - a "valver" with boost)).



    Final call?
    Baffling works. That simple. What i´ve pulled off today has been the most generic setup imaginable and albeit the can it itself is loooooong (as i wanted to be able to play around) truth of the matter is that although diameter shrunk severly this Artemis at 70 Joules (inxs of 50 footpounds) is tamed to a...
    *pfiff* on firing.. and a *KAKLTASCH* as the bullet strikes home 20 meters downrange indoors.

    Impressed? Yes. Yes I am, and not only by the performance but also by the simplicity. Again. Keeping this a moderator is simple.. just use materials that rule powder burners out.
    But truth of the matter is that this overly long moderator basically brings that a shroud is pointless. The gun becomes so silent it´s a friggin laughing matter. Really.

    Thus.. time to reevaluate what´s on the Hatsan too. The Impact, no need as it´s about on par with this Artemis. Sounds of nothing.

  4. #124
    Boolit Buddy
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    Loads has happened. Issue No1 by any means, of course, the bolt handle broke. Basically issue No1 with these early series 1 guns.
    At first i just fabbed a fresh one to replace but found that the dimensions involved were not all that. So redid the M4 hole in the bolt to M5 and then went at it for a fresh handle.
    Doing that i realized that the track for the bolt was simply to narrow, so mill time. Widened that to 6,8mm.. and this is not a stunt for the faint of heart.
    Slop between the parts now made for a "drawer effect" why i also came to drill the opposite side of the receiver for a couple of M3 grub screws to be able to adjust clearances.
    In all honesty.. gave serious thought to drilling the entire thing out to 10mm and simply turn a new bolt, using real bearing bronze..
    But for another day..

    As it turns out that stock pressure gauge on the gun is a liar beyond control. When i checked vs the calibrated gauge on my scuba tank.. 110bar on the tank = approx 160 bar on the gun and see, thus far i´ve been an idiot and just filled the thing according to the gauge on the gun.
    In short?
    Until i get the two scubas filled up tomorrow i have no IDEA of performance. That one.. to be continued.



    That said the thing is starting to show some luster. Happy with that, so time for the german Scherell stock oil.

    As it turns out the accuracy of this thing is just mindblowing with slugs since the barrel saw a tad of TLC. Going to look into that barrel even more, but seeing that i´ve started to play around with the idea of adopting a so called "buddy bottle" inc regulator intended for the paintball crowd.
    Yes. They need to be replaced like every 5 yrs, but.. so what? They´re not an arm and a leg and as this thing shoots.. might as well as the lack of air tank volume IMO is the only thing holding the gun back anymore.
    Or..
    Not really as i keep the scubas like 20m away..

  5. #125
    Boolit Buddy
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    Guys.
    Loads has happend.



    First up though a picture of the two M3 grub screws added to take the slop out of the bolt as i widened the track for the bolt handle. Nothing fancy at all.



    I weighed back n forth, ended up going SSG. Thing is that these rifles lack provision to adjust hammer spring pressure stock, and altering that is redesigning on a higher note than i wish.
    So. "Trapped" the hammer spring instead, and seeing the dual spring setup of mine this actually works very well. Mind you, these ARE very cheap PCP rifles and i guess it has to show somewhere.
    That end plug.. let´s just say that fit isn´t within the vocabulary so turned a fresh one that FITS. In turn, lacking in the pic is the rod guide - out back/rearwards on the gun.



    Spring guide rod also brought that clearance was needed on the stock. Nothing fancy about that either, 5mins of Dremel work.
    This led to all SORTS of positives!! I now had to readjust the sear and its release as all of a sudden stuff became repeatable, handing me a WAY WAY WAY better trigger. Due the poss of adjustment, i could all of a sudden play around with hammer spring preload, with all that brings from a both performance and practical POW.
    ..and so on. Saga just never stops..



    Right. So we like silent. Quiet is good. Scavenged me a piece of steel tubing to fab a shroud to go with the moderator and, in pic, fabbed a rear bung for that shroud tube out of POM/plastic. Yep. Even sports a sealing o-ring vs the tube and fit vs the barrel in turn is very very snug.



    Up front this brought the fabrication of an adapter for... the adapter
    Yep. That there "ridge"/wall is half the runnings of an o-ring groove... we´ll get to that.



    Dimensions are such that i got away with a 20mm tube, or a 3/4" one if you wish. Just adjust measurements accordingly. Looking the part though. Mind you, YES i´ll get to finish it all.. one of these days



    Sry for the blurry pic, but you get the drift. What i did to compliment that front "wall" where the front sealing o-ring resides is to turn a shim with a sorts of ledge to it. This ledge that protruding vs the o-ring keeping the o-ring up against that wall of the steel adapter. Works a million bux.
    The entire shroud is thus "floating" between it´s mounting point, not being able to "provide" anything sans making it go hush and in turn a tad more stiff.



    Yeah. The shooters view of it all. IMO it looks about stock?

    Anyways. Hollidays and what not right.. Well, back to normal and that brought i got my scubas filled.

    PLEASE keep in mind that we´re talking a "low life" PR-900/Stormrider here ok guys? In about as cheap as a true PCP gets.
    Knowing all to well what i had done to it i kept with the somewhat heavier 25,4 grain boolits... Also remember it´s a mere 22cal.

  6. #126
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    Right. What´s there to add really? Highest recording of the day was 1024fps. I´m going to go after that, seeing the results are in, to see if i can get that to 1050-1070fps (to keep away from the wall)
    That though brings that we´ve got as cheap a PCP rifle we could ever ask doing around the 80 Joule mark on a mere 460mm barrel. Not to shabby, and those numbers is playing with the big boys 25 cals with ease.



    At those speeds though i started to experience the groups opening up with slugs. Seems i need to check that further, and i guess it comes down to barrel choke.
    As such i saw an ad for a CR-600, which is the exact same rifle just Co2 powered, for which i made an offer. Reasoning as such.. spares..
    That would also render a second barrel, one that could have its choke opened up and get dedicated for slugs.



    At like 880fps.. that´s what i use for pellets for this gun. Yep. Same weight as the slugs and indeed the difference on target is very slim. Peculiar enough.

    This though led to a point where i really got to shoot the thing. Loads, indoor at the shop. All of a sudden i saw groups opening up even more.. Which turned out to be the barrel having come lose from the receiver. Hm. Three small M3 grub screws (stock).. i dunno about that.
    Trying the puny little rifle out outside the shop though on rats, different matter. That old Tasco 4-16*40 simply didn´t cut it at low light.
    So.



    Yeah, it´s a copy but truth be told a VAST improvment on the Tasco. What´s more, at low light there IS a difference between 40mm and 50mm. Hands down.
    Nah. Happy with that thus far and at that i was gifted one of them cheap China night visions to put on it out rear. Going to figure some sort of attachment out for it and take it from there.



    The Impact is running more of the real deal, albeit old by now. An ATN Aries...

  7. #127
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    Helped a customer with his brand spanking new Impact M3. He showed up on my step and gave me one of them Chinese made "nigh sight" screen kind of jobbies. Used, but none the less.
    Fit was downright horrible and i´m NOT the guy that uses "tape" for any solution. HELL no.
    Turned a sorts of adapter, i guess, out of plastic and thus the thing went on there like welded in place.

    Works?
    Yes, yes it does. I need to figure out how it all relates a bit though as in IR mode i´ve got an issue getting both the target and the crosshairs focused.
    Guess it´s just a matter of reading the effin manual and invest some time.
    Compact and to the point setup though.

    Does it compare to my ATN on the Impact? Not even by a longshot. Got a Yuokon "Photon" too, going to re-check that out as well i believe. If nothing else it at least looks more like a conventional scope..

    Rats. Nocturnal. Is what it is, so these aids to indeed help.

    On that note, looking for the next project gun. Right now the toss is between the Artemis P15, the Hatsan Factor and the Aselkon MX-6 or MX-9.
    The Hatsan being the only 25cal gun, rest of them are 22.

  8. #128
    Boolit Master

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    Good stuff.
    To lazy to chase arrows.
    Clodhopper

  9. #129
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Bump for alamogunr
    Don Verna


  10. #130
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    !!!

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check