MidSouth Shooters SupplyTitan ReloadingLoad DataInline Fabrication
Lee PrecisionWidenersReloading EverythingRotoMetals2
Repackbox
Page 4 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567 LastLast
Results 61 to 80 of 130

Thread: Dipping my toes into PCP Air Guns

  1. #61
    Boolit Man Norcal707's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Location
    Northern Kalifornistan
    Posts
    90
    Sure glad my Xisico Sentry 705-9K .22 likes the cheap Daisy PrecisionMax HP's. I can get headshots on ground squirrels at 50yds if the wind aint blowing and I've got something to rest on. Last bogo sale they had, I paid $6.13 per tin of 500 shipped so stocked up another 4000 rounds!

  2. #62
    Boolit Grand Master
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Northern Michigan
    Posts
    8,897
    Quote Originally Posted by chutesnreloads View Post
    Any reason you've not tried the wadcutter pellets? If your gun likes them they can really perform for 25 yards and under.
    I tried the RWS target pellets and shot two groups....pathetic. Stopped after those 10 shots. From what I have read, wadcutters do not shoot accurately past 25 yards and I wanted at least a 50 yard gun.
    Don Verna


  3. #63
    Vendor Sponsor

    DougGuy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    just above Raleigh North Carolina
    Posts
    7,394
    I posted this in the wrong thread but it fits both so...

    I got a 25 caliber Benjamin Marauder rifle, I tweaked it for the most energy, and hit an old she coon square in the top of her forehead, right in the center of the "X" (lines drawn between eyes and ears) with a 37gr Eunjin pellet and she recoiled hard and waddled off. I thought WTH???? Found her a day later around the front of the house, the buzzards were dragging her out of the bushes. I looked at the spot on her head, it was soft and about the size of a nickel but there was no penetration. I was quite surprised to see a coon soak up that much of a hit to the head and still waddle off.

    After a good long while tweaking and shopping, I ended up with a very high performance Cothran valve and a 1/4" transfer port which is sized to the bore volume all the way from the valve to the breech. Only gets about 6 shots on a 3,000psi fill but boy do they thump! I seriously doubt another coon or even a 'yote would get away from it with a head shot anywhere near the cranium.

    That one was so much fun I invested in a Benjamin Marauder 22 caliber pistol and put the included shoulder stock on it. Scoped these are REALLY FUN!! Yes it's tweaked and the t-port drilled out some for more volume of air to the breech, and I use it for tree rat control around the garden. They get bold and quite destructive when the 'maters are ripe, between the Benjamin and the lifelike owl decoy, they didn't get ANY 'maters this year!

    I debated the possibilities for an air supply and settled on a 4500lb SCBE tank that I get filled at the dive shop. Now that I have moved, I am 50mi from the dive shop and need to find another source of air. I can get quite a few 3,000psi fills for both Benjamins before the pressure drops to 3,000psi in the tank.
    Got a .22 .30 .32 .357 .38 .40 .41 .44 .45 .480 or .500 S&W cylinder that needs throats honed? 9mm, 10mm/40S&W, 45 ACP pistol barrel that won't "plunk" your handloads? 480 Ruger or 475 Linebaugh cylinder that needs the "step" reamed to 6° 30min chamfer? Click here to send me a PM You can also find me on Facebook Click Here.

  4. #64
    Boolit Grand Master
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Northern Michigan
    Posts
    8,897
    Thought I should give a recap of where things stand....and also thank NSB for his advice and help. I would like to indulge in a bit of thread drift as well....

    NSB and I are at different ends of the political spectrum. I know he has taken criticism from some on this forum. Having opposite political views does not make the other person worthless, stupid or evil. It is easy to get our undies in a knot over what is happening to our country. Even easier to paint everyone who disagrees with the same brush....and we all lose when we do that. I gained a lot of respect for NSB as a man during this journey. He has been generous with his time, knowledge, and material resources. He never made me feel dumb...and I can be dumb...LOL. And NSB is a lot better shooter than I am. Thank you sir for helping this "Deplorable" learn not just about PCPs, but that we are all Americans and brothers in arms!

    On to the gun stuff....

    I have shot 168 groups at 50 yards with the Daystate. It is a fine rifle and it should be for $1000. With pellets that shot "decently" those 168 groups averaged .76". The gun has met my goal for a sub 1" platform. With pellets it "likes" I think I can get to .65" average group size for 25 groups. NSB can shoot in the .5" range so that puts into perspective what a 'real' shooter can do vs a hack. I have no regrets with the gun. Also want to share that Airguns of Arizona have been excellent to deal with on the issues I had with the gun....which were my fault.

    The DAR has not had much use lately as the Daystate has me chasing that .5" goal before the snow flies....damn NSB...LOL. The DAR is an excellent gun for the money ($300). I have fired 25 groups at 50 yards and it is averaging .90". Last week the DAR lost air pressure....likely a bad seal...but I have not torn into it yet. The trigger is not great but it can be tuned if it bothers you. Information on the trigger is on the Gateway to Airguns site. With my very limited knowledge it seems one of the best buys out there if you want to "dip your toes in PCP's."

    BTW the DAR was my first choice until that "bastard" NSB told me about the Daystate. I likely would have been happy enough with the DAR, but it is not in the same class. Like I said, I have no regrets getting the better rifle but if you are on a tight budget the DAR is a very good option.
    Last edited by dverna; 10-01-2021 at 10:41 AM.
    Don Verna


  5. #65
    Boolit Grand Master
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Northern Michigan
    Posts
    8,897
    Tried a new pellet because they were so cheap ($6.24/500) Crosman .22 Premier Hollow Point 14.3 gr.

    I could not order more than 3-4 tins at a time and sometimes it would be a few days before Amazon would let me reorder. Ghosthawk came to my rescue and got me 10 tins....I cannot figure out how he did that. Anyway, at the price ($6.24/500) I decide to roll the dice.

    A few days ago I got my original two orders, 4 tins for $26.44 & 3 tins at $19.83 delivered. Got out yesterday and shot a few groups. I had a quartering wind at 4-8 mph. Will do more testing when I get a calmer day.

    At 25 yards, the DAR averaged .46" for 10 five shot groups with the smallest coming in at .27"
    At 25 yards, the Daystate averaged .40" for 5 five shot groups with the smallest at .27"
    At 50 yards, the Daystate averaged .77" for 5 five shot groups with the smallest at .64"

    My gamble paid off. That accuracy is not bad for plinking or hunting out to 50 yards. The Crosman Domed pellet are a bit more accurate but almost twice the price. I will still use premium pellets in the Daystate for hunting as they are less affected by wind and are a bit more accurate.

    I have 8 more tins ordered in addition to the 10 Ghosthawk acquired for me. Putting me at 25 tins (12.5k pellets) at a cost of $156. Three to four tank fills (@ $10 each) will be needed to fire them. That works out to about $200 for 12.5k shots. I will get at least another 8 tins if I can.

    I did not do any pellet inspection or sorting. I plan on doing that to see if it matters. I am also going to try a light coating of Ballistol and another test with BLL. Even if there is no improvement in accuracy, it is reported that lubed pellets reduce barrel cleaning and it is simple enough to do.

    The Daystate continues to shoot well. The DAR has a leak from the fill port. It holds pressure if I leave the tank connected so that was how I shot the groups yesterday. I will contact DAR to see if it is an easy fix I can handle to if I need to send it back.
    Don Verna


  6. #66
    Boolit Master

    sparky45's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    SE, KS
    Posts
    2,405
    Will the Ballistol or BLL cause any "dieseling"?

  7. #67
    Boolit Grand Master
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Northern Michigan
    Posts
    8,897
    Quote Originally Posted by sparky45 View Post
    Will the Ballistol or BLL cause any "dieseling"?
    I know Ballistol is safe in small quantities. It is a recommended cleaner for air gun barrels.

    BLL is likely not something the air gun community would know about and I have never seen it mentioned. I would be applying it very lightly, not like lubing a cast bullet.

    I will report back on both trials and hope to get them done in a week or so.
    Don Verna


  8. #68
    Boolit Master chutesnreloads's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Central Texas
    Posts
    516
    Thanks for the update. I wouldn't expect dieseling to be an issue but am curious to see the results as far as accuracy and fouling.
    I'm still considering ordering the pellet sizers from NOE to see if any improvement can be made on the almost
    good enough pellets

  9. #69
    Boolit Grand Master GhostHawk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Fargo ND
    Posts
    7,075
    If I was to use BLL or thinned Alox on pellets I would sun cure them for a day to make sure all volatilizes have evaporated before firing them. With a smoke burner its not an issue.

    And I have to admit, I've never tested it. I think I will be though.
    If nothing else it will increase the size a smidge and lubricate the barrel. Both of which I think would be good for my rifles.

    Would be interesting to hear what anyone else comes up with.
    I truly believe we need to get back to basics.

    Get right with the Lord.
    Get back to the land.
    Get back to thinking like our forefathers thought.


    May the Lord bless you and keep you. May the Lord make His face to shine upon you and be gracious unto you
    and give you His peace. Let all of the earth – all of His creation – worship and praise His name! Make His
    praise glorious!

  10. #70
    Boolit Grand Master
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Northern Michigan
    Posts
    8,897
    Got some Ballistol lubed pellets downrange today. Weather has not been great but today was decent. 5 MPH quartering wind and some gusting.

    All testing in this post is with the 14.3 gr Crosman Premier HP's I got from Amazon on sale for $6.24/tin of 500. Range was 50 yards.

    A total of eight - five shot groups were fired (200 pellets). All "fliers" were recorded...which spoiled some very good groups but that is how I test...real world. Most of you know it is not easy to maintain concentration and read the wind for 200 shots...at least it is not easy for me. So I started the testing today with what I thought would perform the worst while I was still "fresh".

    First up were pellets from the tin with no lube. Ten groups averaged .81" Not too shabby for "el cheapos".

    Next, were pellets I had lubed 5 days ago, I used 3 drops of Ballistol in a baggy with 50 pellets. They came in at .65". Nice consistent groups.

    I decided to try a heavier amount of oil 6 drops for 50 pellets. The average for 10 groups was .87" and there were a few fliers. I wonder if "lube purge" is occurring???

    The last was to add oil to bathroom tissue ( 2 - 2 ply squares) put it in the tin and swirl it around. That gave a coating between the light and heavy tested above. Those ten groups came it at .72".

    Conclusions:
    First, small amounts of Ballistol reduce group sizes with the CPHP pellet in my Daystate. I am very close to achieving the same accuracy with these bargain pellets as the high end pellets I have tested.

    Second, Ballistol does not "diesel" at 230 bar operating pressures if used in reasonable quantities.

    Third, it seems that too much of a good thing can send accuracy south.


    Next steps:

    It will be interesting to see if Ballistol improves accuracy of high quality pellets. I have enough Air Arms pellets to test that out.

    I was going to try BLL but not sure at this point if it is worth the effort. Putting a bit of Ballistol in a tin of pellets is about as easy as it gets. I need to measure accurately as to much is not good.

    I may try weight sorting pellets to see if I can reduce some of the fliers....but it may just be me...either not reading the wind well, or jerking the trigger if I sense the wind is changing.

    Testing today was at 46*. Will Ballistol work in summer conditions when I do most of my plinking?

    More testing needed. But heck...it is fun when holes are touching.
    Last edited by dverna; 10-27-2021 at 08:41 PM.
    Don Verna


  11. #71
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    WNY
    Posts
    2,502
    Very good report Don.

  12. #72
    Boolit Master chutesnreloads's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Central Texas
    Posts
    516
    Nice work. Assuming these were at 50 yards? Likely some of the fliers were less than perfect pellets too. When conditions
    are right you can often see the pellet flying down range. You can actually see the pellet flying straight or not.

  13. #73
    Boolit Grand Master
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Northern Michigan
    Posts
    8,897
    Quote Originally Posted by chutesnreloads View Post
    Nice work. Assuming these were at 50 yards? Likely some of the fliers were less than perfect pellets too. When conditions
    are right you can often see the pellet flying down range. You can actually see the pellet flying straight or not.
    Good catch buddy....yes 50 yards. Added that to the post.

    I am running out of time with deer season the middle of Nov. And weather is already getting iffy.

    Plus next week my fiancé has surgery.

    Wish I had got into PCP long ago. It is not for everyone, but I love accurate, cheap and effortless trigger time. It looks like my supply of components and .22’s will last a longer too!

    The Daystate is worth every dime I have invested in it. At 50 yards, I have shot 213 five shot groups and it is averaging .76”. I expect that will improve as the barrel “shoots in”, and I get better at dealing with the wind.

    I am too lazy to weight sort pellets for plinking. I will see how sorting affects accuracy for ****s and giggles...and get some “wallet groups” to impress my buddies. But the reality is 3/4” groups @ 50 yards, with out of the tin pellets, is a good place for this old man to be.
    Don Verna


  14. #74
    Boolit Master chutesnreloads's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Central Texas
    Posts
    516
    I would be thrilled with .75" at 50 yards with pellets. Though I was going to mke something happen weight sorting not long after getting the
    multipump. The springer shoots the crow magnum pellets pretty well and after shooting a couple nice 5 shot groups with the pumper I order several tins. Of course the good groups went out the window and was trying to figure out what was happening because there would be some that shot into nice little groups. At first thought it was the new batch of pellets but no... the old batch did it too. So I shot a large group around 20-30
    and interestingly there were two separate decent decent groups with some fliers and some really wild fliers. Was able to actually see some the wild ones flying in a circular trajectory. That's when I went and weighed pellets. About a .7 grain spread on 18.21 grain pellets.
    Ah Ha..... so I sorted into highest and lowest .2 and came out with 3 weight groups.
    Set up a target and nope all three groups still acting same and btw the springer still shooting unsorted pellets quite well.
    There must be a reason a bit over half the pellets group well while the rest do not. Want to try sizing but still not ordered the sizer to try.
    Isn't this a fun hobby?

  15. #75
    Boolit Grand Master
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Northern Michigan
    Posts
    8,897
    Quote Originally Posted by chutesnreloads View Post
    I would be thrilled with .75" at 50 yards with pellets. Though I was going to mke something happen weight sorting not long after getting the
    multipump. The springer shoots the crow magnum pellets pretty well and after shooting a couple nice 5 shot groups with the pumper I order several tins. Of course the good groups went out the window and was trying to figure out what was happening because there would be some that shot into nice little groups. At first thought it was the new batch of pellets but no... the old batch did it too. So I shot a large group around 20-30
    and interestingly there were two separate decent decent groups with some fliers and some really wild fliers. Was able to actually see some the wild ones flying in a circular trajectory. That's when I went and weighed pellets. About a .7 grain spread on 18.21 grain pellets.
    Ah Ha..... so I sorted into highest and lowest .2 and came out with 3 weight groups.
    Set up a target and nope all three groups still acting same and btw the springer still shooting unsorted pellets quite well.
    There must be a reason a bit over half the pellets group well while the rest do not. Want to try sizing but still not ordered the sizer to try.
    Isn't this a fun hobby?
    Don’t give up....!

    My first groups with the Daystate were 1.5-4” at 50 yards...just sucked. I had a loose stock screw, had not cleaned the barrel, and had an iffy scope. Check those simple things out.

    And wind has a dramatic affect with these light pellets. This not like shooting a centerfire rifle where misjudging wind speed by 5mph has minimal change in POI at 100 yards.

    BTW, I have a sampler pack NSB sent me. If I had a crappy group I would stop at 5 shots...sometimes used 10-15 if a pellet showed potential. There are 18 different pellets you can test out. It is yours for the cost of shipping if you want it. Just send me a PM.
    Don Verna


  16. #76
    Moderator

    W.R.Buchanan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Ojai CA
    Posts
    9,872
    OK ,,, there seems to be some misunderstanding on "Dieseling" in airguns.

    A Spring Powered Air Gun Compresses Air behind the pellet as the piston is released. When you compress air it gets hotter. Springers can "Diesel" if a petroleum lube is present. And if that occurs generally the pellet will break the sound barrier and there will be a "Crack/Report" like a .22 LR.

    If you fire the Felt Cleaning Pellets they will also break the sound barrier, and crack like a .22 LR.

    A PCP Airgun Releases Compressed Air which gets colder when released. You might have noticed the Air being released from a tire when you pull the valve stem out is cold.

    Since the air is getting colder during the release, It cannot Reach the "Flash Point" of the "Petroleum Product," if present,,, to ignite it.

    Therefore "Dieseling" cannot occur in a PCP.

    Hope this clears this up.

    Randy
    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
    www.buchananprecisionmachine.com

  17. #77
    Boolit Master

    sparky45's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    SE, KS
    Posts
    2,405
    Good to know Randy, thanks.

  18. #78
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Fl.
    Posts
    1,565
    I know nothing about modern air rifles but have started looking into them. I’ve watched several reviews, including a few about the Air Venturi Avenger rifle as it is priced in the range I’m willing to spend. Several reviews demonstrated consistent 1/2” groups @50 yards with NIB rifles.
    Going through the posts in this thread I’ve seen little mention of tuning the propelling air pressure to achieve the best accuracy for a particular pellet, a practice most reviewers discuss at varying lengths. This seems as logical as tweaking powder charge weight in smokeless powder loads for the best results. I’d be interested in hearing members’ comments on the Air Venturi as a newbie’s first air rifle.

  19. #79
    Boolit Master

    sparky45's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    SE, KS
    Posts
    2,405
    The Air Venturi Avenger (the one I have) is fitted with (2) regulators to address that exact issue. One regulator to set max plenum pressure, and a second regulator to adjust shot pressure, i.e. velocity. Great air rifle. Here is a good video of setup and use.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUpBxCbi5o8

  20. #80
    Boolit Grand Master
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Northern Michigan
    Posts
    8,897
    Quote Originally Posted by Bmi48219 View Post
    I know nothing about modern air rifles but have started looking into them. I’ve watched several reviews, including a few about the Air Venturi Avenger rifle as it is priced in the range I’m willing to spend. Several reviews demonstrated consistent 1/2” groups @50 yards with NIB rifles.
    Going through the posts in this thread I’ve seen little mention of tuning the propelling air pressure to achieve the best accuracy for a particular pellet, a practice most reviewers discuss at varying lengths. This seems as logical as tweaking powder charge weight in smokeless powder loads for the best results. I’d be interested in hearing members’ comments on the Air Venturi as a newbie’s first air rifle.
    The Air Venturi is a good rifle for the price. I decided to go with the DAR because I wanted a quite gun and the DAR comes with a moderator. Adding a moderator to the AV will add about $150 to the cost. If a bit of noise is not a concern, then the AV is well worth looking at. There have been some reports of barrel droop and triggers not being that great but the trigger on my DAR is not great either. Realistically, expecting a "match" trigger on a gun at this price point is not reasonable...but if you get a good one that is a bonus.

    I have not played with tuning air pressure to optimize accuracy but many folks do it. I have been lucky and found cheap pellets that shoot well in both air guns and have not gone down that rabbit hole yet.

    Just a note about accuracy. Most claims should be taken with somewhere between a grain and pound of salt. I would reach out to Sparky45 for his real world numbers. A lot of folks dismiss "fliers". or bad groups "when they do not do their part"; and post great numbers. I have had groups with the Daystate from .2" to 1.3" at 50 yards using the same pellet. That pellet averaged .70" for 69 five shot groups. Shooting small groups with an air rifle is not easy....even a light breeze will spoil a well executed shot.

    If you get the Avenger, please start a thread here so others can learn. Looking forward to your report.
    Last edited by dverna; 11-07-2021 at 08:05 PM.
    Don Verna


Page 4 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check