45 Colt... looking for some load help

[TexasAg11]

I am getting into reloading and would like to work up a “ranch load” for my ruger Blackhawk. It is a large frame revolver but I do not shoot the +p loads well. Alternatively the standard cowboy loads are really not what I’m looking for in terms of being able to kill pigs reliably.

It seems that there is a lot of load data out there for the high pressure (25-30kpsi) and low pressure (10-14kpsi) ends of the spectrum but not much published in the middle ground. To take it one step further... there is a barely any factory ammo even sold in this part of the energy/pressure range for 45 colt.

My plan:
I would like to send a 300 grain xtp or WFN bullet at 1000-1050fps out of my 4.75” Blackhawk. Should hit hard but still be comfortable to shoot. Anyone have any published info on these types of loads? Is unique still suitable at these pressures or is there a different powder that is better suited for this purpose? Any particular powders burn cleaner than others for this application?

Thanks in advance for the feedback!

Matt

[Tatume]

Standard loads kill elk reliably, why not pigs?

[TexasAg11]

Great point and I think it is just personal preference for me. I have no doubt that they kill just fine. But to me it is the same reason why I shoot a 70lbs bow instead of a 50 or 60 lbs bow. The lighter bow will kill a deer or elk just fine, but the margin for error is smaller. I don’t plan for when things go well, I want to plan for the scenario when they don’t go well. I would shoot the +p loads if I could shoot them accurately. Would love to have a +p load with just a little taken off if that makes more sense.

Standard loads kill elk reliably, why not pigs?

[DougGuy]

I would like to send a 300 grain xtp or WFN bullet at 1000-1050fps out of my 4.75” Blackhawk.
Matt

If you want to hit those velocities with a 300gr boolit out of a short barreled Ruger, you are most definitely going to use the 30,000psi Ruger Only loads. There is no question about that, might as well get used to the laws of physics.

My own short barreled Vaquero puts a 320gr WFN-GC to 1050fps ahead of 22.5gr WW296, and it's definitely a wrist snapper.

You don't need 300gr to effectively put down porky, a 255 - 270 - 280 gr boolit will easily accomplish that feat, and you can go look up some of Brian Pearce;s "tier 2" load data to get into the middle power band of this caliber.

The reason you don't see any midrange loads in published load manuals is because SAAMI never adopted a +P level for the 45 Colt, as so many old guns cannot handle even mildly warmed up loads, and only the best of the Italian Clones can handle pressure up to 23,000psi which is 45 ACP+P pressure.

45 Colt with 255 to 270 gr boolits will perform quite well in the tier 2 power band, and won't rip your wrist out of socket doing so. Piggy won't ever know the difference.

A word of caution, do NOT try and download W296/H110 below starting charge weights, pick a different powder if you want to get into the 75% power band of the Ruger Only loads, 2400 is good for that, LilGun will do it, to an extent AA#9 will go there also.

My suggestion is to match the boolit weight with the burn rate of the powder you will always be successful. Heavy boolits and fast powder do not work well, you run out of headroom and hit pressure peaks well before you achieve the velocity you are wanting.

Google powder burn chart and see where some of the popular powders like Bullseye, Red Dot fall, then scroll on down to Unique, Herco, HS6, scroll on down to 2400, AA#9, H110 are and you will begin to see where you could start. A 255gr boolit is standard for 45 Colt, 9.5gr Unique will get it on out a short barrel somewhere around 950fps, and you are fairly close to max for the standard 45 Colt loads. 10.0gr is pushing it a bit, and you will edge closer to the standard 45ACP pressure of 21,500psi.

I will not load over 9.5gr Unique under ANY boolit for 45 Colt personally as 10gr can be spiky and unpredictable. Time to move on to a slower burning powder.

[Wheelguns 1961]

My standard hunting load is 18.5 grains of 2400 with a 280 WFN at about 1150fps. This is what they call a tier 2 load. With a 300 grain bullet, I would start at 17.0 and work up until you get your desired velocity and accuracy. I think this is the type of load you are looking for. The pressure should be somewhere between 20,000-23,000psi.

[Hodagtrapper]

If you want to hit those velocities with a 300gr boolit out of a short barreled Ruger, you are most definitely going to use the 30,000psi Ruger Only loads. There is no question about that, might as well get used to the laws of physics.

My own short barreled Vaquero puts a 320gr WFN-GC to 1050fps ahead of 22.5gr WW296, and it's definitely a wrist snapper.

You don't need 300gr to effectively put down porky, a 255 - 270 - 280 gr boolit will easily accomplish that feat, and you can go look up some of Brian Pearce;s "tier 2" load data to get into the middle power band of this caliber.

The reason you don't see any midrange loads in published load manuals is because SAAMI never adopted a +P level for the 45 Colt, as so many old guns cannot handle even mildly warmed up loads, and only the best of the Italian Clones can handle pressure up to 23,000psi which is 45 ACP+P pressure.

45 Colt with 255 to 270 gr boolits will perform quite well in the tier 2 power band, and won't rip your wrist out of socket doing so. Piggy won't ever know the difference.

A word of caution, do NOT try and download W296/H110 below starting charge weights, pick a different powder if you want to get into the 75% power band of the Ruger Only loads, 2400 is good for that, LilGun will do it, to an extent AA#9 will go there also.

My suggestion is to match the boolit weight with the burn rate of the powder you will always be successful. Heavy boolits and fast powder do not work well, you run out of headroom and hit pressure peaks well before you achieve the velocity you are wanting.

Google powder burn chart and see where some of the popular powders like Bullseye, Red Dot fall, then scroll on down to Unique, Herco, HS6, scroll on down to 2400, AA#9, H110 are and you will begin to see where you could start. A 255gr boolit is standard for 45 Colt, 9.5gr Unique will get it on out a short barrel somewhere around 950fps, and you are fairly close to max for the standard 45 Colt loads. 10.0gr is pushing it a bit, and you will edge closer to the standard 45ACP pressure of 21,500psi.

I will not load over 9.5gr Unique under ANY boolit for 45 Colt personally as 10gr can be spiky and unpredictable. Time to move on to a slower burning powder.

Great information IMO!

Chris

[DougGuy]

My standard hunting load is 18.5 grains of 2400 with a 280 WFN at about 1150fps. This is what they call a tier 2 load. With a 300 grain bullet, I would start at 17.0 and work up until you get your desired velocity and accuracy. I think this is the type of load you are looking for. The pressure should be somewhere between 20,000-23,000psi.

I think pressures will be a good bit higher once he gets to speed.

One other thing to mention, the XTP is not quite as vulnerable to lack of spin as the heavier cast boolits are, but the heavies need spin to stabilize in flight. This means that they don't do well at all at target velocities, and you MUST push them enough to spin the boolit enough to make it fly straight. You will know if you are falling off on velocities, groups will be all over, and you won't group the heavies until you DO push them hard enough.

[TexasAg11]

Fantastic info guys much appreciated! I feel like a kid in school.

10-4 on the downloading of h110 and uploading unique beyond their min/max Have heard those are big no-no’s from a couple of sources now.

Dumb question but how much of the case capacity does the 8.5gr unique and 18gr of 2400 fill? All things being equal is it better to choose a load that fills up over half of the case to spot double loads easily?

[Outpost75]

You don't need a 300-grain .45 bullet to kill pigs. A wide, flatnosed, 260-270-grain bullet at 850-950 fps will give complete through and through penetration and is lots more manageable to shoot. The RCBS 45-270KT with 7.5 grains of Bullseye performs well from the 4-5/8" Ruger at about 880 fps.

If you really want a heavier bullet and have not bought a mold yet, here is pressure tested data from Larry Gibson with the Accurate 45-290H. It weighs 295 grains from 1 to 30 tin-lead alloy and with 7.5 grains of Bullseye in a 4-5/8" Ruger gets about 850 fps at about 18,000 psi.

Attachment 280737Attachment 280738

[DougGuy]

Dumb question but how much of the case capacity does the 8.5gr unique and 18gr of 2400 fill? All things being equal is it better to choose a load that fills up over half of the case to spot double loads easily?

Not a dumb Q at all. In all honesty, your loading rhythm at the press should have you looking in every case, some use a LED light on their press to see into the case easily.

My answer is that I weigh all charges anyway, I use one of the cheapo MTM digital scales and zero a case on it takes very little time, then charge it, put it back on the scale and trickle enough powder out of another case until the weight comes up where I want it then I set that aside and do another one. I get 10-20 of them charged, I set boolits in them with my fingers and charge some more cases. It's slow but for rimmed big bore cases I am either going to shoot them for group or hunt with them so either way I want the most accuracy I can get and weighing every charge definitely eliminates that variable, plus it's mighty hard to weigh a double charge and miss it!

45ACP yeah I only pull a charged case every so often and weigh, variables don't much bother me with auto pistol loads.

[Carrier]

Biggest I shoot is 260 grain cast and use Unique, Herco and HS6. You might find what you are looking for here.
http://www.sixguns.com/tests/tt45lc.htm

https://www.johnlinebaughcustomsixguns.com/writings

HS6 has produced the most accurate with a 7 1/2 inch barrel from my Bisley. I settled on 11.5 grains as the 16 grains Linebaugh suggests is a little too much for a lot of shooting for me.
Dougguy gave about the best information.

[44MAG#1]

The OP said he didn't shoot plus P loads well. "but I do not shoot the +p loads well." Let's analyze that statement. Is it because of the pressure or the attendant velocity the plus P loads generate? Hence wanting the lower pressure.
Since he doesn't mention the exact 300 grain bullet at his desired velocity. If he uses the XTP, like he mentioned, the loads are in the Hornady book. If it were me I would start at the minimum load they list with either H110/W296 or Alliant 2400 and gradually work up. I am sure he will be the best on choosing what he wants as far as recoil.
With a 300 grain cast that doesn't seat as deep he will be will have to research on loads.
Right now I am using a 345 grain cast LFN with 16.5 grains W296 in a 4.625 inch Blackhawk. Havent chronoed it yet but figure 800 or slightly over. Maybe 850.
So far it is shooting well. I may bump it up slightly but who knows?
BTW the 300 XTP seats .455 inch deep.

[Harter66]

I killed 5 hogs with 1050 fps from a 7.5" . 9.5 Unique 250-257 gr 454424 , original Lyman round groove @257 50/50 and the NOE version cast in WW for 250 gr . Either will break 2-3 ribs and exit 24" plus through both shields of a 165# boar up to 50 yd tested . On a 135# sow it'll enter the right front shoulder break 2-3 ribs and exit the left ham from 10' to 30 yd .

The only qualifying I need to do is that the 1-30" carbine demanded that I load supersonic to 100 yd or subsonic at the muzzle . So both the rifle and pistol were loaded accordingly . Also I guess the 1968 lot of Unique was somewhat different than the current production powder at 9.5 gr , or I have a bizarrely tight pistol , or 3 Chrony chronographs that agreed were wrong .

[DougGuy]

Right now I am using a 345 grain cast LFN with 16.5 grains W296 in a 4.625 inch Blackhawk. Havent chronoed it yet but figure 800 or slightly over. Maybe 850.
So far it is shooting well. I may bump it up slightly but who knows?

You are downloading 296 below minimum charge weights for a 360gr LFN-GC. Hodgdon data starts at 18.0 H110 under the 360 at 1.680" minimum charge for a 335gr LFN-GC boolit is 20.5gr. H110/W296 = same powder, made in the same plant, badged H110 for Hodgdon, W296 for Winchester.

The OP may not want a +P load, but as I said in the first sentence,

If you want to hit those velocities with a 300gr boolit out of a short barreled Ruger, you are most definitely going to use the 30,000psi Ruger Only loads. There is no question about that, might as well get used to the laws of physics.

You cannot have all three factors, heavy boolit, near supersonic velocity, and less felt recoil. There is no tradeoff that will produce that. Your loads (besides downloading powders that we know should not be downloaded), go so far as to prove this point.

I am sorta surprised you can get a 345 to group running it that slow. If I could get one to shoot good at 800fps, I'd keep that load but look for a different powder than 296. 2400 is not nearly as finicky when case fill drops well below 75%.

[44MAG#1]

"You are downloading 296 below minimum charge weights for a 360gr LFN-GC. Hodgdon data starts at 18.0 H110 under the 360 at 1.680" minimum charge for a 335gr LFN-GC is 20.5gr boolit."

Yes I am aware of that.
What would be the lowest velocity that would stabilize a 310 gr in a 44 Mag?
Why would a 345 not stabilize in a 45 Colt at 800 to 850 fps?

[DougGuy]

What would be the lowest velocity that would stabilize a 310 gr in a 44 Mag?
Why would a 345 not stabilize in a 45 Colt at 800 to 850 fps?

Both of those would be dependent on twist rate. Iirc, the Ruger 44 has a 1:20 twist am I remembering this correctly? Where the Ruger 45 Colt is 1:16? If it gets enough spin it will fly straight, so if it groups at 800fps I would say that it is getting enough spin. The 44, if it has a slower twist, I would expect it might not shoot as well at that same velocity as it would if driven harder.

If you are talking about a S&W 44 mag, and the twist rate is faster than the Ruger, then it would stand to reason that it would shoot slower than the Ruger, before groups open significantly.

[black mamba]

The 280 gr SWCs are great for tier 2 loads, as they keep recoil manageable while still giving great power and penetration.

[bedbugbilly]

GREAT information!

[MostlyLeverGuns]

I use 20 gr 4227 and the Lyman 454424 for very good accuracy and good power. It is not a wrist breaker, just a very accurate effective load.

[Char-Gar]

To duplicate original 45 Colt factory velocity with the nominal weight bullets:

1. 8 to 8.5 grains of Unique, depending on the revolver.

2. 6.2 to 6.5 grains of Bullseye, depending on the revolver.