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Thread: Have to repair a stock, glue up questions.

  1. #1
    Boolit Master beezapilot's Avatar
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    Have to repair a stock, glue up questions.

    Trap buddy of mine tripped and fell on his Kreighoff KX5, the force of the fall broke one of the forward side "scales" that enclose the receiver on the shot gun. I've been asked to repair it. Not the sort of thing to use Elmer's on I'm thinking. I have LOTS of West System epoxy in the shop, but that may be a little thick. I spoke to the kind folks at Brownell's and they recommend AcraGlas, but have none in stock and, with no ETA, are not accepting backorders. A little research on the web indicated that people were using the "gel" super-glues for this sort of thing with good success. What say the voices of experience? Wait on the AcraGlas? Or with this kind of surface area would a gel work OK? I can blend in any checkering anomalies, and refinish the stock- but have never glued up this type of damaged stock before.

    Two, I think that repair while on the receiver will be the way to go. The forward tab and the grain structure will pretty well align the scale and keep it straight against the side of the metal. I was thinking perhaps a light glaze of vaseline as a separation agent on the steel? Or a thick coat of wax? Perhaps a layer of wax-paper?

    With chemo and all he has few windows of health to shoot, but also had a couple of minor injuries in the tumble. I've a bit of time, not urgent, but would like to get him back his gun in time for the next window.

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  2. #2
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    That's too bad--nice stock. I'm sure you'll get a dozen responses, most suggesting this or that technique with this or that product. Myself, I'd wait for the Accra Glas Gel. I'd use carnauba paste wax as a release agent, applied to all of the metal surfaces that the Accra Glas could migrate to when the broken piece is put in place and some pressure applied. If the Glas gets ahold of the metal you'll never get it to release without breaking it again. Any Glas that oozes out onto the surface of the stock will have to be removed immediately with lacquer thinner or a similar solvent. Holding the broken part in place after the Glas is applied will require an appropriate clamp or a couple of wraps of surgical tubing. Normally I'd suggest one or two small brass threaded stock repair pins in addition to the glue job, but due to the shape of the broken part and the checkering I'd just try the Glas and see how it holds up. Good luck with your project.

    DG

  3. #3
    Boolit Grand Master pietro's Avatar
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    .

    I've successfully fixed that type of damage like this:

    1) Carefully remove the barreled action from the stock.

    2) Drill a bunch of shallow/blind 1/8" holes into the meat of the stock from where the piece split off and also into the split off piece, being careful not to go through to the finished surface.

    3) Obtain some elastic strapping (I use 3" sections cut from an old bicycle tire rubber innertube) to slip over & hold the split off piece to the stock while the adhesive cures.

    4) Apply a heavy coat of paste wax all over the stock (adhesive can/will migrate everywhere0, including in the checkering, up to the edge of the split and onto the finished side of the split off piece - let it dry & do not rub off until after the adhesive is cured.

    5) Make some sanding dust from a piece of walnut & reserve it for mixing into the adhesive (it will help camo the repair).

    6) With everything ready/nearby (including the rubber straps on the stock near the break), and having a clean/new acid brush at hand, mix about a tablespoon of a non-instant 2-part epoxy together, along with some of the reserved sanding dust.

    7) Brush a thin coat of the epoxy into the inner surfaces of the split, both on the stock and the split off piece, being sure to work it into the drilled holes (for reinforcing the repair ).

    8 ) Apply wax to the rubber bands

    9) Press the split to the stock, gently wiping off any squeezed out epoxy, tightly wrap the split to the stock with the rubber bands.

    10) After the epoxy has cured to a jelly consistency (about an hour or two), cut off any squeeze out with a wooden tongue depressor (sharpened to a chisel edge with a razor or knife blade).

    11) Clean up the checkering with a riffer after the epoxy's cured & the rubber brands are removed, rub off the dry wax and do what you have to do to the stock finish.

    12) Clean out any epoxy squeeze out inside the stock inletting with small chisels.

    .
    Last edited by pietro; 03-30-2021 at 05:06 PM.
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    Boolit Buddy 22cf45's Avatar
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    What he said.
    Phil

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    Boolit Master beezapilot's Avatar
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    Thank you, Gentlemen! Just a matter of waiting for the AcraGlas...
    The essence of education is self reliance- T.H. White.

    Currently seeking wood carving tools, wood planes, froes, scorps, spokeshaves... etc....

  6. #6
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Another trick Ive learned when mixing 3 part epoxy is mix the dye into the resin well then add the hardener, This allows a good mix with the dye first then the hardener and yo get the most working time

  7. #7
    Boolit Grand Master pietro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beezapilot View Post
    Thank you, Gentlemen! Just a matter of waiting for the AcraGlas...
    You don't need the brand name (AcraGlas), when any generic 2-part epoxy will work as well - as long as it's not one of the 5-min or 30-min versions (you need a little time to do more complicated work)
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  8. #8
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    Forget drilling holes and all that bull. I have repaired guitars with broken pegheads and broken necks for years and years. It is a clean break you couldn't ask for a better scenario to put back for starters. That is a good clean break, Titebond wood glue will do just fine, and you can very easily clean up the squeeze out with a damp cloth. You glue it and clamp it, you could drill a tiny hole and use a brad as a pin to keep the glue joint from sliding if there is any wedging going on. You pull the brad out later with pliers.

    I can only imagine the mess that would be created on a guitar neck if the advice in #3 is followed, I have fixed many that amateurs had doweled and screwed together, it thoroughly complicates things. Don't overthink it, it's a glue joint. Wood glue often works better than thicker epoxy because the whole point in tite bond is having a tight bond, where you clamp the pieces tightly and force glue out of the joint, narrowing the actual glue layer which makes it very strong.

    For specialty glue jobs I often use bondo to make a pattern that fits the wood piece to be glued, and I put a piece of leather between the bondo and the wood as a cushion, plus the leather doesn't want to slide, and yes wax the leather and the wood surface so that any glue seepage won't glue the leather to the wood. This works very well on guitars and you got a round shape right there just like a guitar, and checkering that cannot afford to be flattened by a clamp, so a form fitting caul would be a good choice.

    By using a piece of wood that will be the clamping force called a caul, I put bondo on the caul and press it to the wood with a piece of wax paper separating the two so it won't stick, you are just picking up an impression that will fit the stock fairly closely once it sets.

    beezapilot, if you want to ship just the stock and have it repaired by a professional guitar repairman, send me a PM I have years of experience with this exact sort of repair on musical instruments. BUT.. Don't attempt it first then want to send it after that fails..
    Last edited by DougGuy; 03-31-2021 at 08:17 AM.
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  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    There are more than just Brownells that sells acraglas in either the old style or the gel. May want to look at Midway, Grafs, Sinclair International to see if they have what you want in stock. Have one of the sporterized 1917 Enfield stocks and there was a crack right where the cut down forend was as well as right where the bolt handle cutout is located. Used Titebond III after I spread the cracks open. Wasn't doing anything with the stock,but was checkered on the grip and forend. Cut some large kitchen matches with a wedge type point to open the cracks. Used the applicator on the bottle and squirted the Titebond in each of the cracks. Duct tape to hold the cracks closed. Next day off with the tape, cleaned up the areas and good to go. Frank

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    Quote Originally Posted by beezapilot View Post
    Thank you, Gentlemen! Just a matter of waiting for the AcraGlas...
    Just looked quick and ebay has some in stock. Good luck.
    Ron

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    I've used Titebond III to repair several of those. The glue joint will always be stronger than the surrounding wood.
    The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
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  12. #12
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    i have repaired dozens of broken stocks when i was "in the business" many were breaks like this. regular acraglas is a amber color as is the stock. acraglas gel is cream colored. you will never get it to the color of the wood. i would go with the regular acraglass. BUT after mixing; let it start to thicken (you will know when) to the point that it will not run. after doing prep work as mentioned above (very important) you should apply the epoxy and bolt the stock on the reciever for best alignment. a few other things are: get as close as you can to the break edges with the release agent. when recutting the checkering its a bitch to get the cutter to cut a clean line thru the hard checkering.. i've used surgical tubing and c-clamps to hold the glue joint. i think a c-clamp works better; because you can see the 2 joints. the caveat with c-clamps is you need to pad the wood to keep from maring the checkering. system 3 g-2 epoxy is just as good but slower drying; tightbond III is also as good. remember to put release agent on the stock bolt also. and it will probably be best to bed the the parts that make contact with the reciever when done. as far as pinning the break; it can be done, just use a dremel tool to grind below the surface of the chekering the brass pins. fill the ground out area with colored epoxy then recut when dry. oh. i forgot to mention. when the epoxy mix is still thin smear it on the break surfaces; gives it a chance to soak in some

  13. #13
    Boolit Grand Master uscra112's Avatar
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    Another guy who uses nothing but Titebond for stock repairs. Epoxies are strong, but cleaning up the squeeze-out requires nasty solvents, and you never get it all. Titebond cleans up with water, so long as it hasn't cured. After curing it's waterproof.
    Cognitive Dissident

  14. #14
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    Whatever method or glue you decide to use, I recommend doing a dry run or two with your clamping system to make sure it will work when the glue hits the wood.

    Robert

  15. #15
    Boolit Master
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    I wouldn't wait for Acraglass. It's nothing more nor less than good two part epoxy. Use the West System you already have. Thicken it with colloidal silica and presto, you have Acraglass Gel. I haven't spent the cost of Acraglass in decades, since I've had West System in the shop.

    I've repaired, literally, dozens of breaks like that with epoxy. Tricky clamping is paramount, cleanup not an issue (use alcohol or vinegar and you won't effect the surrounding finish). If you do effect the surrounding wood on this one, recutting the checkering will camouflage it, and you're probably going to have to recut that checkering panel anyway.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master

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    Titebond is good stuff.
    Another excellent glue is Aerolite. Developed by the British to glue wooden airplane parts in WW2. I believe it was their all wood Mosquito plane. It comes as a powder and a catalyst. Mix the powder with water to a light sour cream consistency. Spread that on one part, and the catalyst on the other. When the two come in contact, the chemical reaction begins. Plenty of working time. Clear in color. Water proof. I've tried to break pieces using this glue, and the glued parts never fail.

  17. #17
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    One more Titebond fan for that type of repair.
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  18. #18
    Boolit Grand Master uscra112's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alstep View Post
    Titebond is good stuff.
    Another excellent glue is Aerolite. Developed by the British to glue wooden airplane parts in WW2. I believe it was their all wood Mosquito plane. It comes as a powder and a catalyst. Mix the powder with water to a light sour cream consistency. Spread that on one part, and the catalyst on the other. When the two come in contact, the chemical reaction begins. Plenty of working time. Clear in color. Water proof. I've tried to break pieces using this glue, and the glued parts never fail.
    The famous Mosquito was indeed an all-wood airframe. Lockheed pioneered the concept over here, but deHavilland really made it shine.

    Where is that glue still available?
    Cognitive Dissident

  19. #19
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    I know Acra glass is very popular with gunsmiths, but West System is really good and I know it holds up in a harsh marine environment. I haven’t used Acra Glass, but from everything I see on videos about it, I don’t think it’s any thinner than West. If you want your West thinner, you can warm it up a little bit, but it will kick off faster.

    Drilling a few holes is a good idea as long as there is enough wood. I would go with a dye instead of saw dust. Dust in the mix will only take up space and you want the two pieces of wood to be as close together as possible, for strength as well as appearance. It think dye comes in the AcraGlass kit, if you go that way, or maybe you can order some from West or elsewhere. I agree a dry run on clamping is a good idea. It is key for getting the two pieces as tight together as possible. I like C clamps, but in some cases elastic is better, maybe both.

    Good luck and tell us how it works out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GregLaROCHE View Post
    I know Acra glass is very popular with gunsmiths, but West System is really good and I know it holds up in a harsh marine environment. I haven’t used Acra Glass, but from everything I see on videos about it, I don’t think it’s any thinner than West. If you want your West thinner, you can warm it up a little bit, but it will kick off faster.

    Drilling a few holes is a good idea as long as there is enough wood. I would go with a dye instead of saw dust. Dust in the mix will only take up space and you want the two pieces of wood to be as close together as possible, for strength as well as appearance. It think dye comes in the AcraGlass kit, if you go that way, or maybe you can order some from West or elsewhere. I agree a dry run on clamping is a good idea. It is key for getting the two pieces as tight together as possible. I like C clamps, but in some cases elastic is better, maybe both.

    Good luck and tell us how it works out.
    If you do use a dye, skip the brown. Go with black. You will thank me later.
    The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
    John Taylor - "African Rifles and Cartridges"

    Forget everything you know about loading jacketed bullets. This is a whole new ball game!


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