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Thread: First time Chassepot owner needs help

  1. #1
    Boolit Mold
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    Question First time Chassepot owner needs help

    Hi all,

    I've recently picked up a 1868 rust bucket of a Chassepot and trying to clean it up and get it firing again.

    Some bits and pieces are missing (or broke) so I'm hoping to get some from you on them:

    - the top of the needle looks to be broken; I might go for Racing's idea of using a TIG welding rod as a new needle, but what is the overall length of the needle?

    - The needle probably broke because the cylinder head (the thing with the washers on it) was missing. I managed to order the cylinder head from Naturalbuy.fr, but am still lacking the cylinder head locking screw: any ideas on dimensions (and, is it the same one as advertised here?

    - the leather strap: any ideas on the original length that should be? When I picked up the Chassepot, a hugely moulded strap was included, but is looks very, very short to me.

    I haven't taken the bolt apart yet, so I might be in for another surprise...

    Thanks very much for any information; this is also my first post on CB, so please mods, if it is the wrong forum, move it to a place more appropriate.

    Thanks,
    Gleekzorp.

    PS: on matching numbers: I've got matching numbers on the stock, barrel, and both pieces of the bolt. Are there any other places I should look for matching numbers?
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  2. #2
    Boolit Buddy
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    If i recall correctly the needle needs to be 71mm for a stocker.
    This includes the little "hump" that makes it stay put in its holder.

    Iīll be happy to shoot a few pics and take dimensions on that screw. By the missing front part i guess youīre talking of what we call "the umbrella" up front?
    These are nothing special, made from mild steel.

    FWIW weīve put quite a bit of work into making the Chassepot a shootable, and ACCURATE, rifle with sorts of modern day replacement cartridges.
    Rolling the stockers up can be fun in itself, it is however IMO not a viable alternative to just plink away seeing the labour involved making them.
    We thus make them out of jumbo sized straws and this works very very well.

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    Fact is, we pushed this envelope even further, mainly on a hunt for even more repeatability and accuracy. Thus that there is the "old" cartridge next to the "new" one.
    The main part of it being said piece of straw.

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    After a number of iterations this is what we ended up with. We simply cut the "culot" of a 308W off and use that as a base for the primer and in this manner come to reference the cartridge at both ends as we use bore-rider boolits.

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    In doing this though we went from a stock 1,5mm needle to a either 2,4 or 3,2mm one.

    Is it still a Chassepot at that point? Of course it is, that "top hat" umbrella - as you note - is just bolted in place. Thus she runs both ways afterwards too.

    If you want to stick with the stock umbrella then just pry a standard musket cap apart slightly before install into the straw. The integrity of the straw will be enough as the needle comes rushing to make the cartridge go off even if NOT loaded to full capacity.
    Them "new" cartridges end up being between 45-110 and 45-120 in length and the major benefit of them being the capacity for onboard grease where it NEEDS to be.
    One major drawback/issues of the Chassepot being itīs chamber and forcing cone. The chamber has some sort of full blown storm going on why it is imperative where said grease is applied, to keep fouling soft.
    Any mistake on that part and you will HAVE to clean the chamber to be able to continue chamber rounds. The forcing cone in turn what hands us that from the looks of it bore-riders is the only way to go if performance is on the agenda.

  3. #3
    Boolit Mold
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    Hi Racing, that is a lot of info and a very interesting approach, thanks!
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  4. #4
    Boolit Buddy
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    My pleasure.
    Iīll get back to you with a couple of pics and dimension on that screw you need.

  5. #5
    Boolit Mold
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    Great, if you could just check this link and tell if it's the same? (you have to click the foto to see the original fotos)
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  6. #6
    Boolit Buddy
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    No.
    Thatīs the screw to keep the bolt in place.

  7. #7
    Boolit Mold
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    Good to know, thanks!
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  8. #8
    Boolit Master

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    Went off the deep end a few years back. This may help: https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...ight=Chassepot
    WWJMBD?

    In the Land of Oz, we cast with wheel weight and 2% Tin, Man.

  9. #9
    Boolit Mold
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    Yep, I did read through that as well; thanks for that well documented journey. That helps a lot in avoiding pitfalls!
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  10. #10
    Boolit Grand Master
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    I've shot mines many times.
    I have two of them.
    Seal is rubber washers for a faucet.
    I've been meaning to try and make a silicone seal just to try.
    The rubber washers work fine for now.
    Made my needle out of stainless rod, with a brass tube soldered on the end to keep it in the bolt.
    I use brown wrapping paper for the case, musket cap with a toy cap inside and some 4f for the primer.
    I put a felt wad under the boolet.
    It seems to be more accurate with the wad.
    My paper case goes high, so it's like a paper patch boolet.
    No need for any lube.
    I forget if I use f or ff. I think 72gr and cream of wheat filler under the wad, to take up the empty space.
    The over all length of cartridge is important.
    To long it will get smashed and might push the primer sideways, to short and the needle might not set off the primer.
    Forget what boolet I used, but I think it was a Lyman.
    Really fun to shoot, and accurate, if the barrel is still good.

  11. #11
    Boolit Mold
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    Hi abunaitoo, thanks for the info; very much appreciated!
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  12. #12
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Fun to shoot.
    I thought making the cartridge would be a pain, but it's not all that bad.
    Haven't shot it in a while.
    Have shot since the chinese virus started.
    There are a few clips in utube.

  13. #13
    Boolit Buddy
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    Here ya go.
    Screw next to it is the one to keep the bolt in place, notice itīs way larger. Ruler i guess tells dimensions

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
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    I solved the problem with my Chassepot . I enjoy Shooting my rifle but not Making paper cartridges. i purchased a Chassepot conversion. from H&C in France. The kit comes with all major part to shoot. there is no major change to your original rifle. but now you can shoot very simply. they also sell some replacement parts such as needles
    www.h-c collections.com
    NRA Endowment Member
    International Ammunition Association
    New York, the Empire State Where Empires were Won and Lost

  15. #15
    Boolit Buddy
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    No offense but the H-C kit is just expensive, as are the boolits.

    https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...volved-Q/page6

    Read up. The real culprit making it an accurate rifle is the boolits. Thing is, the H-C ones are semi bore riders too, just expensive and to my knowledge you canīt pick the mold up anywhere.

    Ditto, their nitrated paper is downright insanely expensive. Folly in my book but to each n his own i guess...

  16. #16
    Boolit Master
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    I guess it's not for everyone , But woks for me . Thats all that counts
    NRA Endowment Member
    International Ammunition Association
    New York, the Empire State Where Empires were Won and Lost

  17. #17
    Boolit Buddy
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    For the op.

    The Chassepot is sometimes referenced as a 43 caliber rifle (11mm). This is partly wrong, true is that the minimum diameter of the bore often comes to the right side of 11mm.
    The rifling is however very very deep why when you slug these rifles they often come out to ,459" to ,460"
    In other words the correct bullet for a Chassepot is a 45 caliber one and indeed the rifle IS a 45 caliber rifle.

    The bore-riders i keep yelling about at the top of my longes are indeed 11,05mm diameter for the portion that comes to rest on the rifling when chambering, the actual drive bands though are a full 0,46".

    Thought it might be worth while mentioning.

    Picking a bullet for the rifle is downright essential. IMO it NEEDS a bore-rider, of any sorts really, to be all it can be. To fire the thing per se though any olī 45cal boolit will do.
    For instance, the first bore riders i used (with very very good results) were regular turned down (on a lathe) 459/500 government roundnose.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master
    Ed in North Texas's Avatar
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    Interesting thread. I bought a Chassepot as converted by Kynoch to 11.60R (.43 Mauser). As I'm forming my brass I believe I will be able to use a .45 caliber boolit (have to see if I'll need to turn the neck when I get home to Texas in the fall). Racing - sounds like it would be worthwhile to have a mould made for a .45 caliber bore rider (don't have a lathe to turn down a boolit), but thanks for that information.
    Ed

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check