Using .45 Colt Dies for .454 Casull

[AlaskaMike]

Those of you who load .454 Casull, do you use a dedicated .454 Casull sizing/depriming die?

I just started loading .454 Casull, and I've been using my .45 Colt dies. I haven't had any problems, and the finished ammunition has looked fine and performed very well in my Rossi 92 carbine. However, I read something recently that it's best to use a sizing/depriming die that's intended for .454 Casull because it sizes the case smaller than the .45 Colt die, providing greater neck tension.

To be honest, I can't recall now where I read it. I'm curious what more experienced .454 Casull folks do. I've got lots of one-off dies and don't need any more if I can help it.

Thanks,
Mike

[nhyrum]

I think rcbs is the only manufacturer that has separate 454 and 45 die sets. They say the 454 sizing die is marginally smaller. I don't recall they're reasoning. Every other manufacturer I've looked at only has one set for the two(three if you count 45 Scofield) Anyway, I've been using a 45 colt set for 3 years now for my 454 with no issues. It's the same as 357 magnum and 38 special.

A quick look at the saami prints shows the 454 casull case is supposed to be .003 smaller in diameter(.478 vs .480)

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

[rbuck351]

I use the 45Colt dies in my Rossi 92 without any problems.

[Alferd Packer]

I have RCBS .454 dies which are needed for the .454 pistol I bought in 1980.The cylinder has the tighter dimensions.
I also have five Ruger .45 Colts from a three screw 1970 model to the newer models from the 80s and 90s.I also bought steel Rcbs dies in 1970 that were not carbide sizes and also bought LEE dies that were all steel as well.Then I bought Carbide Lyman dies and Lee Carbide dies.
The early .45 Colt steel dies only loosely sized the case body and neck sized a 1/2 inch wide band on the case tighter than the body. The LEE steel die sized the whole body somewhat tighter.
The later carbide .45 Colt sizer dies overwork the case body so the case looks like an hour glass from where the web ends up the entire side of the case.
I experienced many case wall splits after about three firings.Sometimes after one firing with nickled cases.
I still have cases from 1960 that I sized and reloaded almost 15 times with the steel dies not carbide.
They are worn out, paper thin, but they were always fired with only 7 grains of Unique or 6 grains of bullseye under a cast soft 255 grain bullet
When I loaded the newer cases with 18 grains of 2400 powder under a 255 grain bullet, I needed the much tighter grip of the carbide dies to keep the other loads in the cylinder from being shaken loose from the cases and working out of the cases from the recoil.
When hunting, if I fired 3 cases and replaced them leaving in the other unfired cases, the unfired one would slide halfway out of the cases if I didn't fire them next.
The point of this whole story is there has always been a wide variation in the old sizing steel dies and the newer carbide dies and a difference in the size of the holes drilled in the cylinders so your mileage may vary as the saying goes and if your sizing die for .45 Colt works for your .454 cylinder then chances are it is overworking your .45 Colt brass way more than it needs leading to shorter brass life.
Also, many of the newer .45 Colt pistols may have a tighter or looser hole drilled in the cylinder to reflect the tolerances used by that maker.
The uberti and maybe the beretta cowboy pistols may or may not be following the specs of the early Colt made firearms.
All these companies follow their own dictates and rules.
All these firearms in the same calibers are shooting the same ammo made by the factories.
Once it has been fired in your gun and or someone else's, here is where the story begins.
The dies to reload these fired cartridges are different sometimes even different by the same company.
The early RCBS dies for .45 colt have changed dimensions at least four times over the last forty years as have Lyman's and Lee's dies.
I have been lucky and been able to make them work once I figured out what was happening together with what I learned from reading gun magazines and books and then the internet came along and helped too.
Wait till you find that
you may have to resort to different makes of shell holders because the cylinder on a gun you own let's the cartridge bulge just enough so the fired cases won't fit in the shell holder.
Very common when you own and shoot different .45 Colts when you dump them all into a case cleaner tumbler and mix together cases fired in different guns.
They will make you want to pull your hair out.
The experience comes with the territory.
That's all for now.
Good Luck!
When you read the above, remember that this story stretches across 40 to 50 years in time so that's why I had to buy other dies as I bought other guns over time.
Thanks

.The above story makes a good case for keeping the shells you fire in one gun of the same calibers separate and identified from another gun you may own in the same caliber .
Process them and reload the batches separately from one gun to the next.
You will save yourself a lot of grief!
Especially be careful of range pickup brass or any brass someone may gift you. DO NOT throw different batches of fired brass together to reload or to clean if they are the same caliber.You may live to really regret it and want to kick yourself repeatedly!!!
Now that's it.

[alfloyd]

When I bought a set of Lee 454 dies a few years back they came with a 45ACP sizing die. Lee said that they used the ACP die to get a better, tighter grip in the slug.

They worked fine whit the brass I loaded with them.

Lafaun

[Alferd Packer]

When I bought a set of Lee 454 dies a few years back they came with a 45ACP sizing die. Lee said that they used the ACP die to get a better, tighter grip in the slug.

They worked fine whit the brass I loaded with them.

Lafaun

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That makes sense.
The .45 Colt shows .480 as outside dia.
and the .45 acp shows.476 outside diameter in the specs.
The RCBS .454 die is definitely smaller than the .45 Colt die.
You have probably been told the truth.
I am a believer.

[AlaskaMike]

Thanks very much guys--this is exactly the kind of thing I was looking for.

That said, since all my loads so far that I've assembled using my RCBS .45 Colt dies have worked just fine in my Rossi 92, I think I'll just keep on doing what I'm doing for the time being. I can always buy a .454 sizer in the future. Well, maybe not at the moment with all the pandemic buying, but after things settle down anyhow.

Thanks again,
Mike