38 special wadcutter

[onelight]

The only issue with loading unsized boolits is you are letting the cylinder throat do the sizing for you.
This may not be a consistent process. I prefer sizing to throat size because it makes for a more consistent process. Usually, it is also more accurate.

As always, your gun may have it's own ideas what it prefers. Listen to it.

I may have misunderstood the process , I was thinking the sizing was being done with the profile crimp die or FCD after seating so with the front driving band in the case like a WC it would get sized by the crimp die like the WC , and then be sized again (depending on cylinder throat size ) when it passed through the throat.
But would need to make sure if crimping over the front driving band and post sizing that the bullet would be secure enough to not risk setback when handling and loading with no crimp grove to secure the bullet.
Never mind I can't think of any reason to load a swc like this

[tazman]

I may have misunderstood the process , I was thinking the sizing was being done with the profile crimp die or FCD after seating so with the front driving band in the case like a WC it would get sized by the crimp die like the WC , and then be sized again (depending on cylinder throat size ) when it passed through the throat.
But would need to make sure if crimping over the front driving band and post sizing that the bullet would be secure enough to not risk setback when handling and loading with no crimp grove to secure the bullet.
Never mind I can't think of any reason to load a swc like this

The FCD may or may not resize the boolit. It depends on the individual FCD die and it's dimensions. Mine would not size the boolit down.
Since the boolit is oversize, it will get sized down going through the cylinder throats when fired. If all your cylinder throats are the same size, well and good. If not, there are some inconsistently sized boolits entering the barrel. This may or may not effect accuracy.
This applies to wadcutters as well as SWC boolits.

I will admit, I am not a good enough shot to make use of the difference without a rest. If you are loading for best accuracy, it is something to consider. I try to eliminate as many variables as I can from the cartridge for target loads.
For practice and plinking ammo, not so much.

[gwpercle]

I have loaded my wadcutters flush with the case mouth. This time I loaded about half of them flush and half of them sticking out and crimping them in the first grease grove . I thank the ones sticking out are more accurate but need to shoot more to find out for sure.

My accuracy test have indicated that cast wc boolits when seated to and crimped in the provided crimp groove do better than all the way in flush seated as you do soft swaged HBWC .
Also I find Lyman # 358432 - 160 grain to be the most accurate cast wadcutter .
NOE makes an improved version of the Lyman design that's a real tack driver...in case anyone's interested . Cast this one with a nice NOE hollow point and you have a Sweet Manstopper Design .
Gary

[tazman]

Also I find Lyman # 358432 - 160 grain to be the most accurate cast wadcutter .
NOE makes an improved version of the Lyman design that's a real tack driver...in case anyone's interested . Cast this one with a nice NOE hollow point and you have a Sweet Manstopper Design .
Gary

I agree with that. I have the NOE mold and cast it as a hollow point. I also have the original Lyman 358432 in 148 grains and it is also a great design.

[David2011]

A taper crimp die reduces the case mouth only, and does not uniform the entire loaded round profile.
Using the taper crimp only with unsized cases the rounds may not chamber.

This makes no sense to me. A taper crimp smoothly tapers the case over a longish slope. I think it would indeed uniform the rounds. I don’t taper crimp revolver rounds but I’ve loaded literally over a ton of semi-auto boolits. My favorite .38 round is my Saeco 148 gr wadcutter over 2.7 grains of Bullseye but it’s always roll crimped.

[onelight]

I know what the Lee carbide factory crimp dies do and I use them all the time . I don't think I understand what the Redding profile crimp die does , can any one explain how the profile die is different than a standard crimp die ?
I did not get much of an explanation from the Redding site.

[JoeJames]

I have been casting my button nose wc's with a very old double cavity Lee mold which throws them at .358" and they weigh about 150 grains. Not water quenched, and sitting on 2.7 grains of Bullseye (Old NRA recommended load of Bullseye per the NRA Handloading Guide). They were tumble lubed with a 50-50 mix of LLA and mineral spirits, and at .358, I really did not think sizing them would do anything good, and probably a whole lot of bad.

[44magLeo]

The Redding profile die has a regular crimp section , just behind the crimp is a tighter section that keeps the case from bulging when over crimped.
This often happens when cases vary in length. With the crimp set for shorter cases then longer cases get over crimped.
So if you don't trim your cases then the profile die may help.
On the Lee FCD there are two kinds for straight walled pistol cases. The carbide FCD and the Collet FCD. THe Carbide version uses a standard crimp but has a crabide ring in the mouth of the die so if there are bulges they carbide rings sizes them away. I have had poor results using thius type of die with the over size boolits my 44 Mag Marlin likes. After seating the boolit the carbide ring sizes the case enough to size the boolit as well. With a standard size boolit for most revelovers it isn't such a problem.
The Collet FCD has no carbide ring and uses a collet to crimp the case. This crimp is controled by the shell hlder hitting the bottom of the die as the collet closes. Case length has nothing to do with the crimp. It can't size the bullet, it justs crimps the case.
The regular crimp is controled by the case mouth hitting the crimp shoulder. The case length is critical to crimp.
Leo

[tazman]

I have been casting my button nose wc's with a very old double cavity Lee mold which throws them at .358" and they weigh about 150 grains. Not water quenched, and sitting on 2.7 grains of Bullseye (Old NRA recommended load of Bullseye per the NRA Handloading Guide). They were tumble lubed with a 50-50 mix of LLA and mineral spirits, and at .358, I really did not think sizing them would do anything good, and probably a whole lot of bad.

In your case, I would definitely say "It ain't broke so don't fix it."
Then again, a contender is not a revolver. Not as many potential problems as a revolver. Only one chamber and throat to worry about.
Your load would probably work just fine for 90% of the 48/357 handguns out there.

[catboat]

An overlooked load is a 148 grain, .358" hard cast, double -ended, solid base , hard cast wadcutter at a MV of 850+ fps. It is called the "full charge wadcutter."

It meets the FBI penetration standard.

Read about it here: ( author Ed Harris was a design engineer at Ruger)
https://www.grantcunningham.com/2011...rge-wadcutter/

[45DUDE]

No one has reported what group size they are shooting with a wad cutter <dewc-bnwc>not a hbwc-- at 25 yards 10 shots bench with open sights. I have mine doing around 920fps with 38 cases and American Select.

[David2011]

Out of my 6” Colt Trooper Mk III I get 9 ring and better accuracy with wadcutters from a Saeco mold over 2.7 grains of Bullseye at 25 yards. My casting mentor and I shot the numbers on the targets at 7 yards back in the ‘80s, when my eyes were better and he was still with us.

Off of sandbags they were 10 ring/x ring accurate.

[tazman]

An overlooked load is a 148 grain, .358" hard cast, double -ended, solid base , hard cast wadcutter at a MV of 850+ fps. It is called the "full charge was cutter."

It meets the FBI penetration standard.

Read about it here:
https://www.grantcunningham.com/2011...rge-wadcutter/

I haven't overlooked them at all. In fact, the loads in the cylinder of my defense revolvers are full wadcutter loads. The backup loads in my speedloaders are something else to improve the ability to reload but the first shots will be with wadcutters.
I fully trust the accuracy I get with those boolits.

Lucky gunner did some gel testing with Winchester Match wadcutters and the results are here......https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/rev...llistics-test/

Very consistent and reliable.

[onelight]

The Redding profile die has a regular crimp section , just behind the crimp is a tighter section that keeps the case from bulging when over crimped.
This often happens when cases vary in length. With the crimp set for shorter cases then longer cases get over crimped.

Leo

Thanks for the reply.
If you are crimping a .360 bullet in an unsized case , does any of the profile crimp die other than the crimp portion at the mouth of case touch the case ? Is it changing the case and also bullet dia. below the mouth ?

[Thumbcocker]

I have been casting my button nose wc's with a very old double cavity Lee mold which throws them at .358" and they weigh about 150 grains. Not water quenched, and sitting on 2.7 grains of Bullseye (Old NRA recommended load of Bullseye per the NRA Handloading Guide). They were tumble lubed with a 50-50 mix of LLA and mineral spirits, and at .358, I really did not think sizing them would do anything good, and probably a whole lot of bad.

Hard to argue with those results.

[gwpercle]

No one has reported what group size they are shooting with a wad cutter <dewc-bnwc>not a hbwc-- at 25 yards 10 shots bench with open sights. I have mine doing around 920fps with 38 cases and American Select.

38 Special Cast NOE 360-160-WC (Lyman #358432) crimped in crimp groove .
2.8 grains Bullseye , indoor range @75 feet = 25 yards
Model 64 S&W , 4 inch barrel , Clark Custom Guns trigger job and Millet SP-1 red dot sight mounted .
This revolver was set up for NRA Bullseye Match shooting about 20 years ago .
14 shots make a one ragged hole group - 1 " wide X 1 1/2" tall , measured out to out of holes . One stinking shot I pulled ...1/2" out of the group ... seems like there is always one that messes up the group!!!
shot standing but resting my revolver across my shooting box , wrist supported with a rolled up towel . If I can get elevation grouping tightened up a little ... I was 70 when I shot this ...eyes are aging fast and can no longer see open iron sights...the red dot is getting hard to see !
This is what I can do group wise with cast 38 wadcutters ...hope info helps.
Gary

[45DUDE]

Thank you all but I am talking 38 special heavy 900+ fps wad cutter loads with open sights. Not powder puff.

[tazman]

5 grains of CFE Pistol under a Lyman 358432 will get you there. This load shoots as accurately as factory match or jacketed does in my revolvers.
I can't claim any specific group size because my skills are not good enough to shoot tiny groups at distances beyond about 15 yards with any handgun.

[45DUDE]

tasman--I have that in a 4 cavity but no CFE. Plenty of others. The H&G bnwc has the best 900+ fps group so for. Thanks.