A Lyman devastator mushroom to share...

[Tripplebeards]

I did some water testing with a few different types of alloys the summer before last with the Lyman devastator. I have them listed on my home page if anyone’s interested along with groups and load data. Well I quickly learned water is WAY harder then WI whitetail as my perfect 15.4 BH water mushroomed alloy never expanded in whitetails leaving boolit sized diameter exit holes in the hides of all three deer I harvested last year with two that made it 100 and 120 yards before expiring with perfect behind the shoulder, broadside lung shots. This left very little to no blood to trail. This year I’m switching to my softer alloy mix that will hopefully cause tons of trauma and shock to knock them off their feet...we all know it’s not possible all the time(and I’m going to hear it several times on this post)but I definitely want to give this 16:1 pewter/lead floor alloy a try. I do not care about “eating all the way up to the hole” as well. I would rather see an animal literally get knocked off its feet and expire humanly right there on the spot...and that’s without a head, spine or neck shot to paralyze it. I’m hoping my alloy will act more like a 243 70 grain ballistic tip on a coyote. The hammer of THOR! Lol...well I can always dream. I hunt 75 yards off my property line so I want try and find an alloy the anchors my deer where they stand. I passed up using this 7.5 BH alloy being it looked like a wide flattened penny and not passing through alot of water jugs when I did my water test the summer before last. Well I figured I’m going to try it this year. The boolit below started as a .430” Lyman devastator, smoke’s clear PC, and GC’d. My load chronies at 1600 FPS out of my Ruger 77/44. This boolit was recovered at 25 yards in a dirt backstop. It weighed a 154 grains and when I added the sheared off piece I found right next to it when added to my scale totaled 180 grains. Yes, it’s a far cry from 265 grains...and some would say it failed, but not me. I want a boolit that rapidly expands causing TONS of trauma and hopefully dropping the animal in its tracks. If my deer do not drop with this alloy I would sure think it will make a lot bigger exit hole for an actual blood trail. Last year two of three deer did not leave a blood trail with a boolit diameter exit for me until about about 50 to 75 yards with just a few drops here and there. Finger crossed! Stay tuned!!!

The boolit expanded to almost twice it’s diameter.

[megasupermagnum]

Not failed, that's fantastic. The chunk probably broke off because it hit a rock. That is the beauty of the lead/tin alloy, the stuff is tough as nails even though it is soft. A failed bullet would be the same thing but cast of clip on wheel weights. They just explode into shrapnel. What you have there is going to leave a big hole, and your rifle velocity should give you plenty of penetration.

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Looking forward to the results!

[Tripplebeards]

Here’s another pic. Kind of blurry but at another angle.

[35remington]

To some extent you need to temper expectations of what animals do when shot. I’ve shot whitetail deer with rounds that so thoroughly destroyed lung tissue that nothing was recognizable as an organ. Just blood soup with chunks in it.

They still ran 40 plus yards.

The idea of bang flops being attainable most of the time are the belief of those who haven’t shot many deer. Without something to stop them from moving like a spine hit it still takes a little while for them to realize they are dead. A 30-40 yard death run with a shot that hits and severely destroys vital tissue other than spine or brain is the normal condition.

Motionless kills are not the standard occurrence. You can do better than a 120 yard death run most likely, but you won’t achieve electric death.

[Tripplebeards]

I agree. But I can tell you I’ve had dozens upon dozens of bang flops using a 30-06 and a 180 grain core locts...with shoulder shots. I have been taking broadside,behind the shoulder, heart lung shots the last 20 years 99.9% of the time so yes they either drop on the spot or go at max 40 yards. I would have been happy with 40 yards with both the above deer...that should have gone 40 yards or less with the shot placement I made. I have photos of them with the holes posted here on this forum for a reference. I’ve shot several dozen HUGE bucks with arrows that have traveled less then 40 yards and dropped dead within seconds so I would expect a cast boolit with WAY more energy at least do the same.

[8mmFan]

Please post your results later this fall. I am sure that many here would be interested in the results, myself included.

8mmFan

[megasupermagnum]

My experience has been the same. A good double lung or heart shot with a good load, the deer very rarely goes more than 40-50 yards. Some guys are willing to put up with deer that run 100+ yards, those guys probably hunt open country where deer have nowhere to hide.There's always going to be that freak incident, which is what I think happened to you Tripplebeards.

[John McCorkle]

Not failed, that's fantastic. The chunk probably broke off because it hit a rock. That is the beauty of the lead/tin alloy, the stuff is tough as nails even though it is soft. A failed bullet would be the same thing but cast of clip on wheel weights. They just explode into shrapnel. What you have there is going to leave a big hole, and your rifle velocity should give you plenty of penetration.

What is it in the alloy of coww that will make them brittle?

I'm planning an alloy for a mihec hp mold I got for 300 blk use...prob going to be around 2000fps or so...was going to sweeten coww with a bit of pure (70/30 or so) but your post has me second guessing that...



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[Markopolo]

hey tripp!!! where is e before pic of your boolit??

i too must as much as humanly possible anchor a deer where hit.. around here if a deer runs after hit, there is a highly likelyhood of a lost deer. unless you have a wonder dog like mine.. he he. but my dog has been untested this year so far... i am hoping she is semi retired of sniffin out lost deer...

[Tripplebeards]

I had to dig...



I like that clear PC!

You can see scratches and dents from me tumble coating them but the imperfections are all filled in by the clear PC and are as smooooth as glass.

[tomme boy]

Good luck! I have shot deer at 10yds with a 12ga 3" 1oz slug and they still ran 200 yds. I have also shot deer with a 50 cal muzzleloader with a round ball at 25 yds and they fell over.

Each deer is going to act different than another. If you truly want to anchor them right where they stand then choose a accurate enough load and brain box them. Or a high neck shot.

[Larry Gibson]

What is it in the alloy of coww that will make them brittle?

I'm planning an alloy for a mihec hp mold I got for 300 blk use...prob going to be around 2000fps or so...was going to sweeten coww with a bit of pure (70/30 or so) but your post has me second guessing that...



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It is the antimony, when it is in greater percentage than the tin, that makes them "brittle". Balancing the antimony with tin makes them "harder" but more malleable. Antimony at 5 % with an equal 5 % tin will form a sub-metal SbSn and will stay in solution in the lead during casting and when solidifying. That is Lyman #2 alloy (90/5/5). Any antimony that is not mixed with tine (SbSn) will solidify before the alloy does causing the "brittleness".

If you take todays COWWs and smelt them correctly you end up with something close to 97/2.5/.5 of lead/antimony/tin. Adding 2% tin to the alloy to the COWW alloy will then balance the antimony with the tin and give a stronger (harder BHN) which is more malleable. Then you can add more pure lead to decrease the percentage of SbSn making the alloy softer yet still malleable. I prefer a mix of 50/50 with hunting bullets pushing 2000+ fps. However, it still has antimony in it and as a ternary alloy will not be as malleable as a binary alloy of lead/tin. Otherwise I prefer a binary alloy (16-1, lead/tin) alloy for upwards of 1800 fps with a GC'd bullet. You'll have to experiment to see which alloy will hold up during acceleration in the bullet/load combination you use in your rifle at 2000 fps.

[Tripplebeards]

Larry, this is the alloy you suggested for bear hunting over bait when I was messing with different mixes. My shooter never saw a bear to connect with so my 7.5 BH alloy wasn’t ever tested on game.

[Larry Gibson]

Like you, I don't care about a little "wasted meat" and prefer the animal to be DRT as close as possible. Having lost a couple deer that were hit well I gave up the "double lung shot" many years ago. Yes it is lethal but many times not before the deer traveled a long distance. In rainy forests with many red multicolored leaves on the ground tracking can be impossible. I advocate aiming to put the bullet through the heart regardless of the angle.

Anyways I think you find the 16-1 alloy will be best. You may or may not have to adjust the velocity down a bit to maintain accuracy as I've had good accuracy with the Devastator cast of it up through 1650 fps. Haven't pushed that bullet above that though. I go to the ternary bullet when velocity is pushed at 20000+ fps.

[Tripplebeards]

I shot a .8” group with the above 1600 FPS load combo at 100 yards the first time I ladder tested it so I’m good to go. The faster I run the groups gradually open up closer to 2 MOA.

[John McCorkle]

It is the antimony, when it is in greater percentage than the tin, that makes them "brittle". Balancing the antimony with tin makes them "harder" but more malleable. Antimony at 5 % with an equal 5 % tin will form a sub-metal SbSn and will stay in solution in the lead during casting and when solidifying. That is Lyman #2 alloy (90/5/5). Any antimony that is not mixed with tine (SbSn) will solidify before the alloy does causing the "brittleness".

If you take todays COWWs and smelt them correctly you end up with something close to 97/2.5/.5 of lead/antimony/tin. Adding 2% tin to the alloy to the COWW alloy will then balance the antimony with the tin and give a stronger (harder BHN) which is more malleable. Then you can add more pure lead to decrease the percentage of SbSn making the alloy softer yet still malleable. I prefer a mix of 50/50 with hunting bullets pushing 2000+ fps. However, it still has antimony in it and as a ternary alloy will not be as malleable as a binary alloy of lead/tin. Otherwise I prefer a binary alloy (16-1, lead/tin) alloy for upwards of 1800 fps with a GC'd bullet. You'll have to experiment to see which alloy will hold up during acceleration in the bullet/load combination you use in your rifle at 2000 fps.

Is there a linear correlation between amount on antimony and brittleness?

Ie what if I took a 16:1 pb/sn and added a bit of wheel weight to the mix? If I find 16:1 doesn't get me accuracy would a touch of antimony help (of course nothing is for sure but just testing the waters to see if anyone else has tried this)

If I can get a hp to mushroom at 1900-2000 fps I'm happy. I'll be powder coating and gas checking so hopefully I get a bit more leeway out of the tolerance to leading and accuracy.

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[Tripplebeards]

John, when I was water testing my 50/50 alloy(pure lead from flooring which I tested at 5 BH and clip on wheel weights that I tested around 13.4 BH if I remember correctly) with 2% pewter added looked about the same in my water test but penetrated about twice the water jugs before looking like a flattened penny. I air cooled my 50/50 alloy boolits as I didn’t want the COWW’s BH to harden. The 50/50 alloy held together very similar to the above boolit and kept peeling back before braking off. It tested round 10.4 BH if I remember. So imo the 50/50 is going to be tougher and penetrate more. Think the 50/50 went through 5/6 water jugs VS 3 with my 16:1 mix. I have pics of the water tested mushrooms on my home page. Once again I’m trying kill deer and not water jugs so I would assume the 50/50 mix will not leave as big as an exit hole as the softer 16:1 pewter lead mix.

[tomme boy]

Factory bullet cores and shotgun slugs are around 5% antimony. It allows the lead to flow and swage better than pure. But tin helps to hold the lead together for a more (tougher) or resilient alloy. The tin will help the bullet to grab the rifling and not strip it. With just antimony it will strip the rifling a lot more easily. In a bullet core or a shotgun slug you do not need to have it grip the rifling.

Whatever you do do not water drop the bullets if you have both tin and antimony in the mix. Let them air cool.

[WheelgunConvert]

That has been my sabot projectile for several years now in a 1:28 inline cast with pure lead. I’m using an original Lyman mould and it has to be really hot to work with the pure lead. No GC needed for that use