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Thread: Herters went RED ?

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    Herters went RED ?

    I recently bought a Herters turret press on an online auction, that was red. The pictures weren't very good, so I thought it was just repainted, but when I got it, I found it had the original red crinkle paint, in very nice condition. All the other Herters presses I've seen have all had the brown crinkle paint. Another odd thing about this press is that it has 12 holes, 6 are threaded and 6 are blank. At first I thought someone had drilled the extra holes, but they look to be original to the press.

    When did Herters change over to red, and has anyone seen a 12 hole turret?

  2. #2
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    Where are the pictures, it never happened without them!!!

    While it's possible, though not likely that the red paint is original. At the end, 1980-81 Herter's was changing to red paint for their tools. Very few of the newer tools were sold during those days and some that are pictured in the catalogs have never been found. There are some Red Model 3's, they seem to be the most common, while I have seen a single example of the Model 3 Improved in red, it had a very poor quality of paint on it. Most of the improved presses were brown. Catalog illustrations show a red Herter's made powder measure, none have been found. The following year the Redding measure was listed as a Herter's Model 45. It is painted red and is very scarce today. Scales are the same, though most examples are not ID'd as they used a simple sticker that easily fell off. There are two designs that need to be ID'd by their shape.

    But, turn the clock back to 1966 and the Herter's bullet maker swage press is red, along with the Model 9 and 9M presses derived from that design. Also, the Model 3M press from that same time is red.

    Converting the Herter's to a 12 station was done on occasion by outside suppliers, The Ultra conversions in 1960/61 are illustrated in Handloader's Digest issue #1. They were not painted red. They are not common and I know of just one example that can be verified.

    If you take the turret off and examine the underside you can tell if the extra holes are added later.

    Ken

    Ken

  3. #3
    Boolit Master maxreloader's Avatar
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    Congrats on your find... pics would be worth a million words!
    Looking for Ideal mold 419181 (44 Evans Long)
    "Joined Dates" are deceiving if you factor-in "lurk" dates.

  4. #4
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    You guys have gotten my curiosity up, so I just finished removing the turret, and I think I know whats up. Both top and bottom of the turret have the blind indexing holes, so in order to use the oversized blank die holes, you would have to flip the turret around , for them to index properly.

    My theory is that during machining on a turret lathe, someone by mistake loaded a 7/8 bit instead of the proper size for a threaded hole, and drilled all die holes and indexing holes. When they tried to tap the oversize holes, they discovered their mistake. You can see where the tap left slight evidence of being run through every hole. That leads me to believe it was done on automated machinery, not a later attempt of adding more holes.

    Then they used the same turret, turned it over and rotated it 30 degrees, and bored and threaded 6 more holes in between the oversized ones. All this leads me to believe it was salvaged to finish up an order as they were shutting down production, or maybe one of the employees scrounged up some parts and made it on their lunch hour! It is definitely original red, no evidence of repainting. So in my mind I have the last Herters turret press ever sneaked out of their back door!

  5. #5
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    Herter's did no machine work in house, it was all contracted out. Some research points to a shop in Ohio for the last days/months.

    Sounds more like a local shop up grade, but with index the holes on the wrong side after all these years is becomes a speculative guessing game.

  6. #6
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    A few folks here may not know Pressman's Indian name is...."Mind Like Steel Trap".
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  7. #7
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pressman View Post
    Herter's did no machine work in house, it was all contracted out. Some research points to a shop in Ohio for the last days/months.

    Sounds more like a local shop up grade, but with index the holes on the wrong side after all these years is becomes a speculative guessing game.
    Rather than the explanation of a local shop being used to upgrade, I’m more inclined to accept

    “ My theory is that during machining on a turret lathe, someone by mistake loaded a 7/8 bit instead of the proper size for a threaded hole, and drilled all die holes and indexing holes. When they tried to tap the oversize holes, they discovered their mistake. You can see where the tap left slight evidence of being run through every hole. That leads me to believe it was done on automated machinery, not a later attempt of adding more holes.”

    Since the index holes are on the wrong surface. I’d be willing to bet an engraved picture of George Washington to a glazed piece of pastry with a hole through it that what we are seeing is an effort to salvage a turret plate somebody drilled wrong (with oversized holes) first thing one Monday morning probably. As friend Ken said, it’s all speculation now unless more history of that individual piece comes to light.

    Froggie
    "It aint easy being green!"

  8. #8
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    Since we don't have any pictures, it's all speculation. Even the blank holes, what size are they?
    Ken

  9. #9
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    1979 catalog shows the Model 3 improved and the Rifleman improved in red

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