I think you misunderstand, I'm not saying I would melt the cerrosafe to slug the barrel, can I use a chuck of it like I would with lead and slug the barrel?
Or is the structure of the cerrosafe all wrong. My lead is 20 to 1, so I was thinking I shouldn't use that to slug.
Cerrosafe won't work to drive a slug. Your 20-1 will work, cast one of your bullets and drive it thru. Just grease the snot out of the barrel and the bullet.
But still a cerrosafe chamber cast that takes in the first inch of the rifling, will tell you a lot more about what you need to know.
Long range rules, the rest drool.
Cerrosafe is harder than even lead alloys. Its function is via a low melting point for obtaining a cast of cavities of unknown shapes.
Get a 0.457” or so round lead ball, oil your bore up, expand the ball if necessary with a couple taps on the anvil of your vise, (the one you’re going to hold the gun in vertically) tap the flattened ball into the muzzle with an aluminum or brass punch, and shove it through with a stout cleaning rod with a flat tip. Catch it in a hat or dish with a shop rag under the breech.
Better still, why don’t you cast some boolits out of those Lee moulds, lube them with SPG, load up some shells according to established practice and see how the thing shoots before going through all this ancillary factfinding? Am I the only one who gets a rifle and shoots it without doing all this mechanical heartburning first? Modern firearms (and Pedersolis are state-of-the-art) don’t have all the glitches that a worn, rusty antique is liable to. Even with them, I see how they shoot with regular load development before mechanical analysis. Usually, it isn’t necessary anyway.
Believe me, if you don’t want to pound lead out of a barrel, you will likely be less than pleased trying to get a Cerrosafe casting out of your chamber if you follow the directions and wait. The stuff I have starts expanding as soon as it hardens, and I’ve had to melt my castings out several times before I wised up and pushed the thing out as soon as the end frosted over. Then, I wait the requisite time for the dimensions to stabilize before measuring.
I always used the now-obsolete Pyrodex CTG in my .45-70, with a little Pyrodex P at the top of the column just under the boolit. Seemed to shoot a little closer that way. Never tried a full load of the finer material in anything larger than .38 calibers, but it shot OK with no problems. I would think the RS would work, but I went to black powder after the CTG became unavailable, so have no experience with it in .45 calibers.
Sounds good, I just thought the 20 to 1 would be to hard. If you guys think it's fine, that's good enough for me..Originally Posted by Don McDowell
You make good points, I've shot the gun many time years ago, I'm just looking for something new and interesting to do for a new project. I thought PP would be a fun and different thing to do..
I agree with "Bent Ramrod" nearly every forum has recommendations to 'slug the barrel' but the problem is that 99% of shooters don't have the necessary expensive metrology equipment to measure accurately.
Shoot the darn thing, try different combinations, different boolits, different powders etc.
I have two molds that I use a lot, Lyman tapered boolits for 45/70 and 40/65, not practical in the field but at the range they work!
Hold Still Varmint; while I plugs Yer!
What you’re saying makes perfect sense, I appreciate it.
Shoot the darn thing, try different combinations, different boolits, different powders etc.
I have two molds that I use a lot, Lyman tapered boolits for 45/70 and 40/65, not practical in the field but at the range they work!
For me right now I’m just looking for some thing that’s a little detailed, interesting and might take a little bit a time to get just right.
Most of my shooting is focused on competitions and I’m in some sort of match each weekend. Nowadays most of my loading is done on the progressive press unless I’m doing something long range but then those loads have long been figured out. So the casting and paper patch is really more just for A hobby to chew up a few minutes in the evening every once in a while
My bullets for 40-79 SBN are cast .395. .013 undersize groove dia. Wrapped with two wraps paper from BACO and then sized .400 and hand seated in case neck. Bullet is bore sized, not groove sized. A .400 dia in a .408 groove dia barrel.
When you get things right with paper patched loads, you'll get to the point where you almost shudder at the thoughts of having to shoot grease groove bullets. But unfortunately until you get the right diameter for the bullet before wrapping, then paper thickness, getting paper patch to shoot consistently well can be a real challenge. Fouling control is really critical for accuracy with patched.
Long range rules, the rest drool.
Do a chamber cast like Don said. It will give you more information than driving a slug through. You can also stuff some cotton balls or patches a couple inches from the muzzle and get that dimension to see if you have a tapered muzzle.
I’m cleaning the barrel now, this rifle has been in the back of the safe for the last 15 or more years, when it was put up I’m not sure if it was cleaned well or not. I’m thinking when I sat it down I didn’t think it would be this long before I picked it up again.
It looks good and the barrel didn’t look to dirty when I looked down it. I brushed it out several times and have some Butch’s Bore Shine sitting in it. I’m going to get it super clean tonight.
Tomorrow I’ll lube it up and make a chamber cast. I’ll do a long one like the one in the picture above.
Could someone recommend a black powder I should start off with first? As I said before, right now all I have is Pyrodex. I have P and RS.
If I can find some, what would a good first powder to try? Or should I just try what I have?
For that 3-1/4" case I would stick with 1 F Swiss, Goex or Olde Eynsford. The regular Goes start with around .250" compression and the OE or Swiss less than .100"
I used 118 gr of the old Goex Express powder under a 525 gr postell nosed PP bullet setoff with a white box of Win LR primer.
If you are serious about paper patching you might consider getting a plain sided boolit mold that drops boolits close to if not exactly the size you need to shoot. If you are always using an exact 20:1 alloy, a molds dimensions should be able to be calculated, that drops exactly what you need.
So I got the chamber cast done this afternoon. I pulled it after 20 minutes and measured it right away. I’ve got a bore of .456 and .452 in the lands. The free bore is difficult to get an accurate measurement but I’m somewhere in the neighborhood of .320, so I’ve got a decent idea where to start with my seating depth.
I’m I correct in thinking I now need to decide on my paper? Once I’ve got that and know the thickness, I’ll then know the size of the mold I’ll need.
I’ve found some powder and have a few pounds of Swiss 1F and Goex on the way. I’m looking into a die for a compression plug, and while I’m at it I guess I need an expander of some kind and I’ve got to pick up some sort of wad too.
Check those measurements again, I seriously doubt Pedersoli makes barrels with rifling of only 0.002" per side.
Watch the video on barrel making.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOo-muzMRp0
Last edited by Bad Ass Wallace; 03-26-2021 at 11:12 PM.
Hold Still Varmint; while I plugs Yer!
I’m trying to upload a picture so you can see just how shallow they are.
I measured several times and feel very confident about it. It’s been several hours and it looks as though the entire thing has grown slightly. I show everything to be .002 larger now..
Now I’m getting .458 and .454
I’m trying to upload a picture, when I choose the file it just sits there and doesn’t load.
Last edited by jconley; 03-26-2021 at 11:39 PM.
I have cast chambers and muzzles for two rifles of mine, a 45/70 and a 45/90, both go 0.450"/0.458" at muzzle and 0.4515"/0.458" at the chamber. Since you want a bullet that is 1 or 2 thou larger than the bore choose 0.459/0.460". Believe me a normal boolit is a lot easier to tune than PP, I've been working these guns for over 40 years.
Hold Still Varmint; while I plugs Yer!
What is the diameter of the freeborn?
Long range rules, the rest drool.
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