First 10 gauge try and fail with a lee loader.

[Tripplebeards]

I gave up after about a half dozen crimping tries today. I tried with and without a big age 8 point starter. I pulled the crimps on each one back out and kept trying till I finally gave. I only had 11 hulls and don’t want to ruin them. I already had powder charges pressed down with nitro cards over the tops so I ended up loading them all with over shot cards. I didn’t have any water glass or fletch tight cement so I pulled out the hot glue gun to glue the over shot cards in place. I did have one crimped shell I left that didn’t look anywhere close to perfect. I figured I’d fire it to see how it does. It’s the only shot charge that isn’t #6 shot. I traded a member here some lead ignots for #5 shot that turned out to lead BB shot I’m guessing. The huge lead pellets weigh on average 4.6/4.7 grains. Illegal for turkey hunting but I guess Ill be go to go for coyotes.

Here are my crimp fails...



Any tips on getting a good crimp with a lee loader? If not I’ll have to order a 10 gauge roll crimper or pawn off my new to me lee loaders for a mec JR. If I end up roll crimping can I shoot roll crimped shotgun shells in auto’s?


Here are the same shells after I trimmed off the hull folds placing a over shot card and gluing them into place. My loads below are all loaded with 100 grain and 116 grains of FG along with 1 5/8 oz loads of #6. One pair I cut to short. They are loaded with 116 two grains of FG and all I could fit in them was 1 3/8oz of #6. Should be a hoot to shoot on my old Damascus 10 gauge.





I’m going to order some 2 7/8” brass shells brass shells from track of the wolf as well.

[longbow]

I have a bad feeling about the hot glue in your bore! I think it will leave a nasty mess.

That stuff is GOOEY! I recently was using it to make attached wads for slugs and wound up trying to use an old spoon to put molten glue into a form... not recommended! Best just to squirt it out of the glue gun. I even used a paint stripper to blow super hot air onto it to get it to flow better... no go. Then I had a spoon all covered in glue so while I was casting round balls I figured the glue might melt off and even flux the lead... wrong again! Well, it did sort of melt off but wouldn't catch fire and wound up being a nasty mess on top of the lead so I scooped it off.

If it behaves like that in your bore it will make a mess with BP fouling!

If it stays ahead of the heat and doesn't rub off onto the bore you may be okay but I'd check after a couple of shots to be sure.

When I used to use a Lee Loader for 12 ga. many, many years ago the crimps came out better than that but they weren't great. I never got really decent crimps with the Lee Loader.

Longbow

[Tripplebeards]

I only loaded up 10 rounds to try and will be scrubbing out the black powder in a bucket of soapy hot water like my muzzle loader. I’ll see how big of a mess I do or don’t have and report back tomorrow when I fire my loads here. First time reloading shotgun so I’ll see how it goes. Learning process for me.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

It's a learning process. 1st photo, left hull is bad. It's shootable, but you need to seal the middle somehow. I used silicone sealant (never gets hard, stays pliable) but the hole was much smaller, just large enough for a single shot to fall out. If you're super thrifty hulls like this can be trimmed, cut off just below the old crimp. Then you have a non-standard length and each hull is a custom load. Just about not worth the trouble, and I'd most likely trash that one. Middle hull, almost right, perhaps just a dab more shot to firm it up a bit. Hull on right, shot column is too short. You need to get it exactly right, and that's pretty much your problem throughout all the photos. it can be trial and error, add a over-powder fiber or felt wad, select a slightly longer/shorter plastic wad/shot cup, use a bit more or less shot, an over-shot card if necessary until you hit the exact correct length. Too short and the top will cave in, too long and you'll get results like the bottom left and center, the top pooched up because it can't seal down as there is insufficient room beneath the folds. Insufficient length of shot column holds true for the bottom right as there is too much room for the roll crimp. The hot glue situation is something I know nothing about, but I've made all the same mistakes you have, and I think every beginning shotgun shell reloader has done the same. Really, the secret to a good fold or roll crimp is the length of the shot column. For a good roll crimp you just about have to buy one of BPI's roll crimp tools and use a drill press, although some get good results with just an ordinary electric hand drill. There are some primitive tools for sale on e-bay made in Russia that are very similar to what American shot shell reloaders used around the turn of the 20th century, and they clamp to a bench surface and operate by hand power.

Some of my mistakes and successes:


.410 hulls, good fold crimp. Two views of roll crimping tool used in drill press.


Good roll crimps, .410, done with .410 roll crimp tool. Shells with shot column too long, bulged at base, top wouldn't seal closed. Good roll crimp 12 Ga. shells.

DG

[longbow]

Here's a question re crimps. Do you have 6 and 8 segment crimp starters? If memory serves the Lee Loader doesn't come with crimp starters. I have Lee plastic crimp starters that drop over the hull mouth then you whack it with a hammer, then put the hull into the Lee Loader and use the ram to finish the crimp... with another hammer whack.

Longbow

[Tripplebeards]

Yes, I bought a vintage 10 gauge plastic 8 crimp starter off eBay for round $6.

I just ordered a half dozen track of the wolf brass shells so I’ll have to get something besides hot glue to seal them up with. I’ll have to figure out how to seat large pistol primers in them as well. I’ll still keep messing around with my RST hulls as well. So I would assume less pressure and quite a bit of velocity and pattern variances with just gluing over shot cards in place compared to crimping?

Looks like hot glue shouldn’t be an issue...

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...any-one-use-it

[MOA]

My ten gauge on a mec 600. I only use a 6 point crimp. I try to only use Federal 3-1/2" hulls. Here are a few images of the load.

[MOA]

When I use glue on any hulls nowadays it's with water glass only. Go online and get a gallon jug. Do it once and be done with it. Last you for life.

[6pt-sika]

I used to use whatever hulls I could get REM , WIN , Federal or RST all chopped to 2 7/8” . Now I’ve about worn out all the Federals and WIN have outlived their usefulness and I’m down to REM and a hundred or so RST’s . All the REM hulls were new when I acquired them and were cut down on a bandsaw in a jig I made . The crimps work quite well , I have a roll crimper for the drill press but to date haven’t tried it on any 10’s yet . I don’t load BP but with the SR7625 and Red Dot loads I normally load I get very presentable crimps . Even my buck and slug loads with a folded crimp look good . I will say however for the buckshot loads I dribble a little wax at the center of the crimp to seal any possible opening and to cut down on buffer seepage . Also might add I usually put an overshot card under the folded crimp to make my crimp flatter and less concave . These practices have worked very well for me over the last thirteen years . I’ll eventually try roll crimped on the 10’s but I seriously doubt I ever go as far as the brass shell route . Simplicity and ease of manufacture are key points for me . Oh yeah initially I used a 600JR now I’m using a MEC Sizemaster I think the collet sizer on the Sizemaster does a slightly better job .

[missionary5155]

Hot glue.... Sun on a black motorcycle seat is enough to make it sticky ! Just think of the temperature in a barrel.

[grayscale]

I've been using a hot glue gun to seal crimps on waterfowl loads for years. Never seen any residue in barrels from it. Blows right down the bore ahead of the shot charge, doesn't seem have any affect on the pattern. Back in the day my dad used a few drops of paraffin the same
way.

[W.R.Buchanan]

3B: The closer you can get the crimp to closed with the crimp starter the better the crimp will be. The Hornady Crimp Starters (6&8 get both) work really well and almost close the crimp which sets it up to be pushed home by the Ram. Note: the Ram must only be pushed down to the correct depth or it will stuff the crimp in too deep like yours are. Having the payload "stack height" (IE: everything inside the hull) correct helps to support the Crimp when it is properly closed. There is a collar on the ram that you set so you can't go past the proper depth. You're supposed to be able to push the crimp to final close with hand pressure, However I haven't been able to do it, so use your Drill Press as an arbor press.

The reason why they don't make Lee Shotshell Loaders any more is because the crimp has always been the problem and lots of people's crimps looked worse than yours. I have found they can be made to work, so see the post below.

Roll Crimping eliminates all this as the crimp keeps going down until the payload stops it. Roll crimping was the way shotshells were crimped long before fold crimping ever came about. Old style Roll Crimpers are on Ebay all the time and some date back to before 1900. The roll crimp tools we have now are so easy to use a Caveman could do it! It should be noted that previously Fold Crimped hulls don't Roll Crimp as nicely as previously Roll Crimped hulls. However they can be made serviceable by running a tapered spud into the mouth of the hull while applying some heat which straitens it out nicely. (see the last 3 pics)

Still I Fold Crimp, fold crimped hulls, and Roll Crimp, roll crimped hulls. It just works better. And BPI probably has plenty of new 10 ga Hulls waiting for you to buy.

Randy

[W.R.Buchanan]

3B: I just went down and played with my Lee Loader.

There are several secrets to getting it to perform.

1. The stack height has to be right. IE: all the stuff inside has to be the right height in the hull. This supports the
crimp.
2. You have to Pre-Crimp closed as far as possible and the hole should be no more than 1/8-3/16". I had to push
on the pre crimper with my press to get the crimp closed as far as in the pic.
3. You have to creep up on the final closing and you'll have to do it with your drill press as you can't apply
enough pressure by hand to close the crimp properly.

A Hammer won't work as you can't control the depth or the pressure accurately with it.

I used my Sinclair Arbor Press to do mine, but the drill press would be easier as you can creep up on the crimp and set the Quill Stop so you can repeat the process. It will take several pushes the first time and there is also "spring back" to contend with.

They should look like this after you're done.

Hope this helps.

Randy

[Tripplebeards]

Randy, your hired! I have the same type of plastic 8 point crimp starter. I think I didn’t have enough wads to be at the correct height to begin with because my cases buckled below my crimp. I will have to show off my groups in a little bit. I was happy with my 1 5/8 oz #6 loads with glued in shot cards.

BTW there was ZERO hot glue residue in my barrels after shooting.

I cleaned my barrel like I would a muzzle loader in soapy hot water. I then scrubbed the barrels and Rem some rum oil patches through my gun and then a few dry ones till my patches were almost clean. I then sprayed a bunch of Rem oil back down the barrels for storage till turkey opener.

[longbow]

Good the hot glue blew through! If it melted onto the bores it would be a mess. I was quite surprised to see a bubbling mass of goo on top of the lead melt when I melted the hot glue off the spoon... and it wouldn't "boil down", crisp up or even catch on fire. It just remained a gooey mess until I scooped it off. Once it is melted onto hot metal it doesn't want to come off! I guess when used to hold those over shot wads it is far enough away from heat and blow by it isn't an issue.

Yeah, Randy did good there! Those crimps look real professional! My Lee Loader crimps never looked that good but they weren't totally horrible.

Longbow

[W.R.Buchanan]

Kent: Just do what I did and they will. My tool was made in the 50's and it is essentially a Lee Loader before Lee went out on his own. I paid $10 at a gun show, I don't even remember when.

Getting the pre crimp as far along as you can helps. But pushing the Ram down with a press made all the difference. That way you aren't forcing the crimp to do something it doesn't want to do.

Randy

[Tripplebeards]

Here are my test results...

Best load came from 100 grains of FG and 1 5/8oz of nickel plated #6’s. I put a 1/4” nitro wax over the powder and glued in the shot cards. These are 25 yard targets. Left barrel pit 40 pellets in my turkeys head. The right barrel must be more open as every load was pretty open with it.




Same load with a 1/4” nitro wad and another nitro wad I split in half on top of it. They didn't pattern as well...



This targer was out of the left barrel with 1 and a half nitro cards. If the pattern went to the right a little it would have been nasty! The right barrel put only about 2 or three pellets in the target.



The last targets are left and right with 116 grains with two 1/4” nitro wads and 1 3/8oz.



Every load I rolled out shot the RST 1 1/4oz 5’s and 6’s.

[dsh1106]

Tripplebeards

Your pattern looks pretty good @ 25 yards, I would definitely be using the LB 1st !!!

Scott

[longbow]

Not bad! Turkeys better watch out!

Randy:

I didn't have a drill press back then so the "finish" crimp operation was done with judicious use of a mallet... yes, no travel stop on a mallet but if the wad stack was good crimps were acceptable. Not perfect like yours but acceptable.

Longbow

[Tripplebeards]

I had it marked right barrel but it was actually the left. Here is a close up and another target I dont think I posted.