Scrap Yard Haul: What Did I Get?

[Daekar]

I recently got ahold of 200lbs or so of scrap @ $1 per pound from a recycling facility, and it appears to have come in three varieties: small dull ingots, small bright ingots, and large bright bars. Got more weight of the large bars than anything. Did a 100% sample with our XRF gun at work and this is what I came out with for averages:

Small Dull Ingot: 98.853% Lead, 0.033% Zinc, 0.110% Copper, 0.744% Iron
Small Bright Ingot: 11.940% Tin, 12.319% Antimony, 73.290% Lead, 0.462% Zinc, 1.202% Copper, 0.601% Iron
Large Bright Bar: 7.778% Tin, 12.983% Antimony, 77.935% Lead, 0.540% Copper, 0.613% Iron

So... having zero experience with anything except COWW+2% Tin, this is a totally different beast - those bars look like something between linotype and monotype, and one of them was cracked in half when I got it. What on earth is Iron doing in there? Is that copper going to make this stuff hard to use?

I assume the best way to use these alloys is to mix them with my COWW alloys using the alloy calculator spreadsheet and shoot for something softer? My goal is to be able to work up a load with a velocity of 2000fps in my Henry Single Shot (357mag) with a Lee 358-158 RF (powder coated) while maintaining accuracy... I don't really have any interest in pushing bullets of any weight faster than that on a routine basis.

I guess I was unprepared to deal with such hard alloy and my prior learning has been focused on soft stuff which I assumed would always be less expensive. Obviously that's not necessarily true. Should I try to duplicate Lyman #2 with these and try working up accurate loads from there? Not sure what the conventional wisdom is if you've got this kind of thing to work with.

EDIT: Just as a note, it's interesting what else shows up as trace elements in scrap. Some of the bright bars had small amounts of Bromine, one had 0.221% tungsten (!), and one of the small bright ingots had Zircon in it.

[farmbif]

I think you did real good, bright stuff will come in handy on making pure lead cast and shoot real well. ive always used such alloys to add to pure lead or to harden up clip on wheel weights for attempts at velocities faster than 2000 fps. but for me after coming to this site and learning new skills always try to play it safe and stayed away from casting bullets with real soft alloys. im not sure how much those trace elements will effect cast bullet performance I know there are real experts that can put it all in terms we can all understand.

[Soundguy]

Might have been left over from babbit production.. especially seeing iron, copper and zinc in it.

[dtknowles]

Did you clean off the surface before you XRF it? Some of those things could just be dust on the surface.

Tim

[Scrounge]

Might have been left over from babbit production.. especially seeing iron, copper and zinc in it.

Or the ingots were cast in an iron mold.

[Soundguy]

.6 and .7% iron seems high for surface contamination. Leets look at it in grains... that's 49 grains per pound.. that's not an insignificant amount. meaning a 5# bar has 245gr of iron in it.. that's a 45 acp sized slug worth of iron in a 8x2x1" bar like rotometals sells.

Unless we are talking a rusty mold and a spec of rust was on the lead when it was measured.. IE.. not a clean sample. A knife scraped area would be a clean sample area imho..

[Soundguy]

Did you clean off the surface before you XRF it? Some of those things could just be dust on the surface.

Tim

I could go with that.

[Daekar]

Did you clean off the surface before you XRF it? Some of those things could just be dust on the surface.

Tim

They were pretty filthy when I first brought them home, so they all got a quick scrubbing in water before being spread out to dry, then a few days later they were XRF'd.

There was one small bright ingot that I had to take three measurements on, because the first showed almost 9% zinc. Subsequent measurements on other parts of the ingot showed no zinc, so I used an average of all locations on that ingot as the final values for the spreadsheet. It occurred to me that I might want to cut them in half a measure on the cross section, but I haven't taken that step.

[Burnt Fingers]

I wouldn't buy mystery ingots for any price.

But that's just me.

[FLINTNFIRE]

I have had older ingots showing a bit of rust on surface , cast in aluminum ingot mold , steel dipper and steel pot though , out of wheel weights and have got lead ingots from others with same rust and a little slag in casting pots surface , yes they were fluxed several times also and still had this show up after some years in storage in plastic buckets .

Has been a non issue in making bullets , have also had copper hard Babbitt that I have mixed into ingots before , it has made good bullets also , I mix and cast as alloy dictates , if it flows and forms good coats good and shoots to point of aim all is good .

Anytime we buy unknown alloy , dig range scrap or wheel weights there are going to be impurities and other alloys in the mix , be nice to have access to a XRF but our hobby can be done without one , I would mix the whole batch together for a larger batch of all the same consistency and use as is .

[USSR]

I wouldn't buy mystery ingots for any price.

But that's just me.

I'm with you. I hate surprises.

Don

[beagle]

The copper will cause no problems as it's already alloyed. Copper increases the "strongness" of an alloy. I use Babbitt containing copper to alloy bullets for my .223. Gives me about 400 fPS more velocity without stripping. Don't use that straight. Cut some WW alloy with it./beagle

[Soundguy]

Can't wait to try out my Babbitt alloy to sweeten some coww or range scrap for making some 8mm mauser maybe tomorrow.

[KYCaster]

They were pretty filthy when I first brought them home, so they all got a quick scrubbing in water before being spread out to dry, then a few days later they were XRF'd.

There was one small bright ingot that I had to take three measurements on, because the first showed almost 9% zinc. Subsequent measurements on other parts of the ingot showed no zinc, so I used an average of all locations on that ingot as the final values for the spreadsheet. It occurred to me that I might want to cut them in half a measure on the cross section, but I haven't taken that step.

So.... three different readings and three different results?
What would happen if you took three readings on the other ingots?

Just curious...
Jerry

[GhostHawk]

I agree with the copper being a good thing. Makes "Tough" boolits that will mushroom but not explode or fragment.

I think both of the bright bars could be alloyed with soft lead to make a good all around pistol and slower rifle alloy.
1 to 1 or perhaps looking at the tin content even 1 part in 3 or 4 could make a very good mix.

Far as I'm concerned you scored.

[Soundguy]

I just made some rifle bullets and did a 10:1 mix of range scrap to tin/copper babbit.. made bullets so hard that I have to use both hands on my RCBS rock chucker supreme to size them from .324 to .323. I did the mushroom test with a hammer.. and the bullets deform nice and smooth and never split or fracture.. you can pound a 175gr .324 flat into a thick nickel sized with the bullet standing on my anvil and wailing on it with a flat faced 2# hammer. best bullets I've ever made I think. I bet I could run them un gas checked...

[Oaks&Pines]

I recently processed some scrap pewter.
It was bottom stamped ValPeltro and Artale.
Before cutting it up I did Internet search to make it wasn't something valuable and they list the composition of their alloy as being 95% tin 3% copper and 2% antimony, so that could account for some of your copper.
Company Est. in 1973 making repo's so great alloy for bullets.