20 gauge wads with Lee 575-470M

[barkerwc4362]

Well I cast about 150 of the Lee 575-470M out of my pistol alloy. The alloy is the equivalent to WW with 3% tin or about Lymans #2. Weight is just under 430gr and diameter is .577-.578. I bought some Commander wads from BPI and was trying the slugs in these wads when I decided to try some of the other wads I have. I tried the Remington RP20 and SP20, both of these seem to have a tapered shot cup and the slug does not want to go all the way down. I next tried the Federal 20S1, it was the same as the Remingtons. I have two Winchester wads, WAA20F1 and WAA20. The WAA20F1 was like the Remingtons, but the WAA20 seems to have a more parallel shot cup and the slug fit. The only problem seems to be the WAA20 wad has a very deep shot cup compared to the BPI Commander. It looks like it will take a 1/4" spacer to bring the slug to the top of the petals. The BPI Commander wad seems almost a perfect length for this slug. I know I need to take pictures! The Remington and Winchester wads are all about 20+ years old. The federals and BPIs I just bought. Any one else have similar experiences?

Bill

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Hello Bill, have fun first reading then experimenting and a whole new world will open up for you!


http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...=150140&page=5
Ajay
VdoMemories-Blazing Sabots.LLC
http://www.Blazing Sabots.com

[barkerwc4362]

I have already discovered I need to order fiber wads to increase the height of the wad column. I had some plastic meat trays I had put aside when I was building wad columns for 45-70 loads and played with various numbers of them to try and get the right height for a good crimp. I have some ugly looking test hulls. So it looks like a 20 gauge plastic over powder wad, then a 20 gauge .125" nitro card in the base of the shot cup, then the Commander wad, then a 28 gauge .125" nitro card in the shot cup, then finally the slug? That looks like the right combo for my Cheddite shells. Thanks for the tip. Off to see who has what I need and is in stock.

Bill

[Carryacolt]

Once you have the slug in the commander wad, what does the
O. D. measure?
Is it hard or really easy to push the wad/slug into the muzzle ?
What is the bore diameter of the barrel?
Keep us all posted on how it groups.

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Hello Bill, if you are using 2 3/4" hulls then you can omit the OP wad!

Hello CarryAColt, you have two choices if your barrel is .615 or .620 then go with .575" bullet and if your barrel is a bit over then choose .578" bullet, they both are the same weight!

The OD is .628" to .630" with Commander wad, in the next 2 to 3 days I'll be doing some more testing and pushing the loading envelop a bit further and will report back!

I just got yet another shipment of powders to test!

Ajay
BlazingSabots@Gmail.com
VdoMemories-Blazing Sabots.LLC
www.Blazing Sabots.com

[barkerwc4362]

Ajay,
I am using Cheddite 3" cases with Cheddite primers and SR-4756. It's a load right out of the BPI manual for 1-1/8 oz shot. Looks like you are using a different mold than the one I am using. Mine looks like a big wad cutter. Also mine fits flush with the top of the Commander wad. The wad with the slug in it measures about .620-.622, I believe. I'll have to look again. I had to order my nitro and over powder wads from BPI, so I won't see them until Thursday. I just finished casting a little over 500 RCBS 230grs for my 1911s. It's too hot here to cast, but I need another 500 or so to get ahead. Being sick at Christmas messed up my casting routine.

Bill

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Hello Bill, if you look carefully , you will notice a .125-28 gauge nitro card below the bullet and one at the bottom cavity of the wad OP part of it!
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...=150140&page=4
Ajay
BlazingSabots@Gmail.com
Blazing Sabots.LLC
www.Blazing Sabots.com

[barkerwc4362]

Got the wads, both fiber and plastic from BPI yesterday. Loaded 15 rounds to work out the bugs. Turns out I didn't need the 20 gauge .125" fiber, just the plastic over powder and the 28 gauge .125" fiber, with the Cheddite hulls I am using. Still having a swirl in the crimp and an occasional buckling at the very top. I have adjusted the cam all the way on the Sizemaster to try and get rid of the swirl. I believe the swirl and the buckling are related. Either too much or not enough pre-crimp? I loaded 10 shells with the same load using #6 shot and everything looks good. Just a hint of swirl and no buckling on all ten. I am using the BPI brass crimp starter since these are new hulls. I am not impressed. Works fine on new hulls, not sure how well it would work on once fired. If you use the provided spring, the starter tilts easily and doesn't give you a square crimp. I removed the spring and solidly mounted the device. I'll go back to the MEC pre-crimper for once fired. I'll try to fire these today if it stops raining.

Bill

[barkerwc4362]

I forgot to mention. The Commander wads have a little protrusion in the center of the over powder cavity that needs to be removed to allow the 28 gauge .125" fiber wad to seat. I couldn't figure out why the wad wouldn't go in square, or stay in. A closer look revealed the problem. If you have hard finger nails they will take it out, otherwise a toenail clipper will do the trick.

Bill

[barkerwc4362]

I fired 15 of the 575-470M loaded in Cheddite 3" cases with Cheddite primers, 25.5gr SR4756, BPI OPW, 28 gauge .125 fiber wad in the base of 20 gauge Commander wad, then a 28 gauge .125 fiber wad in the shot cup under the 575-470M. I used a fold crimp to finish it off. I have attached a recovered wad column. It looks like the Commander wad is being forced over a side of the over powder wad (OPW) even with the 28 gauge .125 fiber wad in place. The ignition force is also pushing the base of the shot cup and 28 gauge .125 fiber wad under the slug up into the hollow base. The 28 gauge .125 fiber wad is being heavily distorted. The good news is the 28 gauge .125 fiber wad under the slug is recovered within 30 feet of the muzzle, so it is not staying attached to the slug. I am going to add a 20 gauge .125 fiber wad between the OPW and the shot cup to see if that keeps the two from inter locking. The load according to the BPI manual is going just under 1300 fps. Not too bad! The target shows the results of shooting all 15 at 25 yards. Aim point was bottom of the black. The upper two and the bottom two are in my opinion aiming errors. The forearm unlocking at the shot also makes it hard to recoil the same way each time.

Bill

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Hello Bill, can you post a picture of the base of the shot cup after firing!
The base should be flat and not like this:

Be sure to ask for darker maxi nitro cards and not the softer ones!
Ajay
BlazingSabots@Gmail.com
Blazing Sabots.LLC
www.Blazing Sabots.com

[barkerwc4362]

Okay, as promised here is a picture of the Lee 575-470M muzzle loader projectile inserted in the 20 gauge wads I have on hand. There is a 28 gauge .125" fiber wad in the base of each shot cup. As you can see not all of the wads will allow a 28 gauge wad fit in the bottom of the cup. Nor do all the wads easily allow the projectile to fit perfectly flat like it should. From left the wads are: BPI The Commander, DRV Versalite, Federal 20S1, Remington RP20, Remington SP20, Remington RXP20, Winchester WAA20F1, and the Winchester WAA20. The best fit seem to be the BPI The Commander, the Federal 20S1, and the Winchester WAA20. The have the least taper to their shot cups.

[barkerwc4362]

Ajay,
As requested here are some pictures of the fired wads. There is one of the bottom over powder portion and one of the inside of the shot cup.

Bill

[SuperBlazingSabots]

A Blast from the past, sure brings back good old memory.
I enjoy reading them.

Best regards,
Ajay K. Madan
Super Blazing Sabots