Cut-down .30-40 Krag

[PBSmith]

I've been quite happy with the accuracy of a full-length .30-40 issue rifle and wouldn't mind owning a "sporterized" version for tin can and milk jug work.

Don't expect to ever be wealthy enough to own a real Krag carbine but maybe I would spring for a cut-down. Assuming the bore is good, what sort of groups could a person expect to shoot with one of these whose barrel has been cut to 22"?

[Der Gebirgsjager]

I like Krags. I own Krags. But, most of your question is hard to answer. First, it depends on the individual rifle. They're all old, and unless you re-barrel, and essentially have a new one, they have all sustained different levels of wear and tear. Accurate at what distance? Accurate with what load? Milk jugs and tin cans, sure, but at what distance? See what I mean? Too many variables for a comprehensive answer.

Of the several I have, shooting cast boolits, I'm going to say that with open sights 5-6 inches at 100 yds. is about average. Sometimes I've gotten 4 inches, but it was a very good day. With jacketed bullet loads I've sometimes gotten 3 inches, rarely 2 inhes. There's also the variable of what the shooter is capable of, and some folks have better eyes and muscle tone. 22" is a common sporter barrel length, as is 24", but the original rifle has a 30" barrel and I'd speculate that the average shooter, although he'd find it more cumbersome, could shoot it better on the range.

Yes, you will need a taller front sight on a cut down barrel. I know of no "sight options" per se. To some extent they are all custom, as the correct height of the front sight has to be determined by the rear sight. If you retain the issue sight you'll need a different front sight than for a replacement rear sight such as a Williams Guide, and the height of the front sight is determined by the working of a math formula that takes the height of the rear sight and barrel thickness and length into account. So, even if the front sight is factory-produced, all of them are to a certain extent "custom" and have to be screwed or silver soldered on by the gunsmith/hobbyist.

The Krag is an interesting, and still useful old rifle, and I can't imagine myself ever not having one. Still a very capable deer rifle. As for owning an authentic carbine, you are correct that they are very expensive. They were almost the perfect hunting rifle "as-issued" and when released by the government they were snapped up by the hunters of the day. Many were put into different stocks or personalized in other ways, and since there were far fewer of the carbines manufactured originally than were the long rifles they have indeed become scarce and expensive. For a while Boyd's Gunstocks was making a replica carbine stock that was close to the original, although not exact, and by using a cut down rifle and a Boyd's stock one could come close to the original carbine configuration. Perhaps they still make them-- I haven't checked for years. Below is a photo of some I created from cutdowns and some have replacement stocks.

DG

[444ttd]

i have four krags, 2 are sporterized and 2 are actions sans bolt. i have only shot one krag, the one i don't shoot has a crack in the stock and no open sights. i hunt with krag and it likes 165gr ranch dogs(173 gr actually) and h4198 that goes 1930fps. i have taken 7 or 8 deer and my son has taken 5 or 6 deer. i would take the krag out for elk, john plute did!!!!!

https://throughahunterseyes.com/the-...c-proportions/


i don't do competition targets, but i have a few pictures that are 100 yard groups. these were done before i mounted a redfield 102k aperture sight. (continued)

[Krag1902]

I've been quite happy with the accuracy of a full-length .30-40 issue rifle and wouldn't mind owning a "sporterized" version for tin can and milk jug work.

Don't expect to ever be wealthy enough to own a real Krag carbine but maybe I would spring for a cut-down. Assuming the bore is good, what sort of groups could a person expect to shoot with one of these whose barrel has been cut to 22"?

I have five receiver sighted Krags and shoot them a lot when weather is decent. All have shot 1.5 MOA groups and I have gotten several groups right at an inch for five shots, and even a few sub inch at 100 yards. If there is something I have learned that is a constant, stay below 1,600 fps and use Lyman/Ideal bullets in the 180-220 grain weights. My best performers are 311284, 311335, 311290.

[444ttd]

(continued)

my eyes ain't that good anymore but i'll take 5 shots with the 102k at 100 yards that go 1 3/4 - 2 1/2" any day. i "can" go 3/4 - 1 1/4" but my eyes and the wind is right, stars are in line with planets and the gods of shooting smile upon me!!!!!

the 1898 spr armory was made in 1903 and it was in military condition. it was either the government or a private business( like bannerman's) that made it a sporter. sometime when my great grandfather bought it(in the 1920s?), the rifle began its career as a deer slayer. it was handed down and my son's will have that honor.

if your really interested in shooting the krag, then buy a sporter. it will cost you around $150-500. anymore than that, then it better be a collection piece.

[Mk42gunner]

I lucked into an 1899 carbine a few years ago at an auction for either $175 or $275. The only reason I got it so cheap was it had a horrendously broken and BUBBA repaired stock. Took a while to fix it.

Two things that the carbine need (in my mind) to make it a perfect little hunting rifle are 1.Sling swivels and 2. A useable receiver mounted aperture sight.

Robert

[NEKVT]

With Krags a "good" barrel is relative to how it shoots, not looks, and many can be cleaned up if needed. I have an 1898 rifle that was cut down to 24". The stock was cut down with a cutting wheel while still attached to the barrel causing several notches and nicks to be cut into it. A banded ramp sight was hammered on and there was no crown to speak of as the muzzle was banged up in the process. It was purchased cheap and test shots to check functioning keyholed with factory ammo at 50 yds - no surprise there. I cut the barrel to 20", filed it flat and cleaned up the muzzle with a chamfering tool. I then attached a Williams receiver sight and front ramp with JB Weld not wanting to pay to D&T the receiver or barrel at that point. The first half of the bore was quite "dark" but it shot jacketed and cast quite well. This is what it looked like then and for 12yrs I used it for a woods carbine and it shot more than well enough for that use.


Then I decided to replace the barrel with a new Criterion 22" which was professionally cut to 20" and crowned and the front ramp properly attached. Still not wanting to D&T the receiver a Rice sight was located and attached to the bolt as designed. The receiver was blued along with the new barrel and the stock was refinished with TruOil over the linseed and this is what it now looks like.



I still love how it handles as a short carbine but the modern internal dimensions and slick bore of the new barrel makes this a completely different rifle to load for. And with the somewhat limited testing so far it has not matched the old barrel yet but shoots more than well enough for hunting or informal targets. The point to all this is even the more inexpensive Krags around today should be able to shoot to the level of my old barrel, even if a bit of coaxing is needed, and will certainly suit the purpose originally stated.

[gnoahhh]

NEKVT brought up a good point. New Criterion barrels are cheap enough (right around $200) that there's no good reason to complain about so-so accuracy with a Krag. I followed my own advice with two of them, and have a third waiting in the wings. Those sporters, one with a Redfield No-Drill receiver sight and the other with a Lyman 48K, went from being ho-hum 2 inchers (with what appeared to be dandy original Armory barrels) to being honest MOA guns with the 311284 + SR-4759 powder. Hunting loads with 180 jacketed RN's and IMR-4831 run the same. Criterion barrels are sweet.

[Baltimoreed]

Depending on how original looking you want your krag to look this is a possibility, a scout that I built from a 21 inch ‘carbine’ that I never should have bought. Used a Kraghaus long base, a Nikon EER scope and a redone stock. Turned out nice.

[Krag 1901]

I bought my Krag 1901 carbine sporter from a pawn shop for $75 about 1978 mostly because it had a Redfield receiver sight with target knobs. After I started to shoot cast boolets I had a new Criterion barrel and Fiber Optic front sight added. The new barrel is not much more accurate than the old one, but a lot easier to clean. I put a Kraghaus long base on it an am looking at scopes as my eyes are going south. I'll keep shooting it as long as I can with the aperture sights though.

[cas]

I bought a cut down one (stock) off a forum. When I got it, I found the last 8+ inches had no rifling. So I cut it down as short as I could. The rest of the bore was still pretty washed out, but was good enough to hunt with. I sold it, don't recall why. I wouldn't mind recreating it with a good bore. lol

[Char-Gar]

A cut down Krag, if done right, is no more or less accurate, than before it was cut down.

[Baltimoreed]

Shorter bbls are stiffer than longer bbls [of the same profile] so should be just as accurate. The only thing you loose is sight radius.

[Carrie450]

As a collector of antique rifles like the krags, I will personally beg you not to destroy an original piece. If you're dead set on a sporterized krag, get one that's already sporterized and change that to meet your needs.
Carbines were a little different than rifles. Krag rifles like having a small amount of upwards pressure at the end of the stock, the barrel bed. Usually 4-6 pounds.
Many rifles from the period do that. Krags, 1903 Springfields, M1917s... it was a common technique to work around barrel harmonics. These light profile barrel rifles do not like to be free floated.

[Char-Gar]

As a collector of antique rifles like the krags, I will personally beg you not to destroy an original piece. If you're dead set on a sporterized krag, get one that's already sporterized and change that to meet your needs.
Carbines were a little different than rifles. Krag rifles like having a small amount of upwards pressure at the end of the stock, the barrel bed. Usually 4-6 pounds.
Many rifles from the period do that. Krags, 1903 Springfields, M1917s... it was a common technique to work around barrel harmonics. These light profile barrel rifles do not like to be free floated.

It has been my experience in tuning up Krags that the back of the box magazine makes for the sweet spot. The Krag has no recoil lug to bed and the rear of the magazine box should bear firmly against the stock. If not, the metal will move back and forward in wood with each shot. Glass bed the rear of the magazine box against the wood, will do marvels for accuracy in older krags.

[444ttd]

As a collector of antique rifles like the krags, I will personally beg you not to destroy an original piece. If you're dead set on a sporterized krag, get one that's already sporterized and change that to meet your needs.
Carbines were a little different than rifles. Krag rifles like having a small amount of upwards pressure at the end of the stock, the barrel bed. Usually 4-6 pounds.
Many rifles from the period do that. Krags, 1903 Springfields, M1917s... it was a common technique to work around barrel harmonics. These light profile barrel rifles do not like to be free floated.

i look for old sporters. i do not do a original piece, mostly because of the cost, but i luv the old originals. the mauser rifles('91-'96) also have to be sporterized. i bought a 98 mauser with lyman peep sight and a bishop stock. the stock was junk(looked like black mold was in it) and the sight needed a screw(i gave to it my gunsmith and he ground it out to take a flat screwdriver). as soon as i am able to do it, some rotten stone and 3in1 oil then i'll have it.(stock was done by http://rifle-stocks.com/ ).

98 mauser



1898 spr armory



93 spanish mauser



the 93 spanish was my first time refinishing the stock. then the 98 mauser and the krag both needs work.