Hi all, this is my first attempt shooting PP bullets at 200 meters, 75gn swiss nr.4, no droptube, no compression, dry wrapping with Onion Skin paper. The bullet is a double diameter from a project by Arnie Seitz, it's a Lyman #2 alloy, the rifle is a Pedersoli Sharps "Q". The weather was windy with strong gust winds. The next time I'll try using a slightly thicker paper, just to chamber the cartridge with more pressure. Any suggestion is welcome.
Maybe a different alloy? I never ventured far away from the binary alloys and personally see no need to. For my PP bullets I stay at 16/1 with a little testing with an alloy that had to contain some antimony. That particular alloy couldn't have had much antimony, but it was off in weight by a small amount and was colored differently. I don't remember there being any issues with accuracy but I remelted them as to not have something "different" sitting around. They made fine revolver bullets.
Interesting bullet. What is the measurement of the base diameter?
Did you fire those ten shots as one group or were you making sight changes as you shot? The affects of the wind are obvious.
I’ve also just started paper patching. I’m enjoying it immensely.
JKR
The base is .452", the body is .443". The last 2 shots I was aiming off the center to the right to compensate the wind. At the moment I'll stay with the Lyman #2 alloy because I had very good results with normal GG bullets, just to see if they will expand correctly. These double diameter PP bullets are 510gn. Yes, I'm enjoying it too!Originally Posted by JKR
Instead of thicker paper, could you do a third wrap?
Since you’re not compressing, you might not want to get the bullet too snug in the bore because you can change the bullet seating depth when you push a tight bullet into the bore.
Very interesting observation, the bullets were not too snug in the bore, but some were. So another question: is it preferable a snug bullet in the bore, or not? The next lot of cartridges I prepared in the meantime are loaded with 80gn and compressed for about 2mm, but I have to decide for this snug aspect using a thicker o thinner paper. Thanks!
The usual suspects - dual diameter slick, the multi alloy used rather than 1:16 tin:lead, not compacting the powder (no drop tube or vibrator), and lack of at least a bit of compression. Starting off with good known components loading process would probably be the better way of getting yer feet in the PPB Way. Wait for a far more calmer wind day helps heaps, too.
Last edited by rfd; 03-15-2021 at 07:29 AM.
Hi rfd, it was a starting point just to see the differences with more and experimented loading processes. At this moment I prepared a second lot of cartridges that I described in my previous message, but I'm undecided for a tighter or looser PP bullet into the bore.
For me, and probably most others, the best fit of the PPB to the bore is "snug but always easy to insert and extract before and after firing". Yer bore dimensions will dictate the PPB build. Also not mentioned is fouling control - extremely important!
Rfd, thank you very much for your advices. Regarding the fouling control, I'm using a Delrin rod by Beltfed (Arnie Seitz), a wet patch (just water) followed by a bronze brush, then a dry patch.
My PPB was designed to fit my first Pedersoli Sharps "Q" (the rifle I use for my first target in the photo), it fits perfectly into the bore, like a glove. But in my second Pedersoli Sharps Competition the PPB prepared with the same Onion Skin paper you have to push to chamber it properly. So I switched to the white Seth Cole paper, but the PPB fits just a bit looser into the bore.
Claudio,
I note you are using One wet patch, bronze brush, then dry patch.
Try TWO wet patches, then dry patch.
That works well for me.
Arnoldo
Grazie Arnoldo I'll let you know what happens with your fantastic DDEPP!
Is it wrong to put a slight taper crimp on a PPB?
Depends on what's meant by "taper crimp" and if any "crimp" is needed at all - and why.
I load fire formed brass and a slight *squeeze* of the case mouth is required to keep the PPB from falling out if turned upside down.
I don't want any crimping on my BPCRs because I had bad results (larger groupings). Also the looser PPB in the case allows me to change the bullet type (different weight, different paper, etc.).
It's not "crimping", it's squeezing to keep the PPB from falling out. The PPB will twist 'round in the case, it can be twisted out of the case, it can be twisted back into the case, all with no damage to the paper patching ... and when in the case, it will not fall out if turned upside down. I use a Lyman taper crimp die, but other dies can be used or modified for a case mouth squeeze.
Of course, you don't need to do anything, you can have a wobbly PPB in a case and insert it all into the chamber as if it was the breech load that it is - just make sure the PPB is snug in the rifling so it won't separate from the case or create distance 'tween the wad.
I think you'll probably find that the case mouth squeeze is the better, safer way to go. To each their own.
I have this one: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1011239733
Maybe I don't know how to use it, but I'm still cautious using it. "Snug" is the right word for me at this moment, other results will follow, and I have a lot of work to do with 2 Pedersoli Sharps with slightly different chambers and barrels.
Anyway my DDEPP bullets fit very well and the wobbling in the case is not noticeable.
Last edited by Claudius; 03-16-2021 at 10:05 AM.
I dunno what you or others want with a PPB cartridge build, but for me I want the PPB to not fall out of the case. I don't care if it's loose in the case, and in fact I like that it is. I want to be able to pull the PPB out of the squeezed case mouth without damaging the patch paper and I want it to go in/out of the chamber easily. I also want easy chambering during shooting and I achieve that with Brent's bore gophers for fouling control.
Claudius,
What I do to get the most accuracy from my rifle is case prep. Everything uniform. Length from the front of the rim, not from the head.
Case wall thickness and chamfered.
The flash hole with Starline brass I don't find the largest from a new lot using a number bit and match the rest to it. Starline holds pretty uniform flash holes.
Inside case volume, not by weight. Weight will get you close but weigh the amount a case will hold. I use just regular salt because the crystals are pretty uniform. This will keep the compression the same.
When I prep the brass I use a taper crimp die only and size the neck with out the bullet seated to a snug diameter that will allow me to insert the bullet with out damaging the paper.
When you taper crimp the case mouth with the bullet seated in it it will change the bullet base diameter also.
All the above will hold the verticals down to a minimum baring wind changes.
When I buy brass I get a couple hundred to get the same lot and I will prep the cases and make a small mark so they don't get mixed.
The above is just my way of doing it to help me do my best, and doing my best is getting tougher all the time being 81. I need all the help I can muster up
Casting bullets and alloy is another issue to get the best for the load.
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