I'm interested! Thanks for working on this.
I will try and get a buy rollin this weekend for us.
Thank you for all the input!
I didn't think the dimensions of the actual Speer Gold dot would apply to a cast copy so I didn't offer samples.
Wasalmonslayer, if you want a few let me know and I will send them.
My thoughts changed when I read this post:
"My experience has been that most .38 Special JHP bullets do not expand appreciably below about 850 fps. The notable exception is
the Speer 135 grain Gold Dot "Short Barrel" loads which expand reliably at 800 fps., attainable within standard pressure
from 2-inch barrel guns assembled to Mean Assembly Tolerance of pass 0.005"/hold 0.006" using 4.3-4.4 grains of Bullseye."
-Outpost 75 http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...604-38-special
So it seemed to me that we are really seeking the performance of the 135 Gold dot and not its shape.
That's why it would be worth a look inside to see if we could learn anything.
It was harder than I thought to cut it....
The hollow cavity does have an odd shape, almost an ogive to it.
If we want this to expand like a real 135 Gold dot we may want a deep pin.
I can take some measurements if that would be helpful.
It would be great if this boolit of ours would expand at 800 fps....
And I kinda mangled it in the cutting process, that's why the left side is ugly....
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Last edited by Cord; 03-25-2021 at 10:57 PM.
It looks as thou the mouth has a thin opening, radius to the cavity, serrations in the jacket to help it curl open.
The best thing we could do in the hp world is use a semi deep penta pin that makes the mouth opening quite wide and have it taper to a point about 2/3 of the way to the crimp so the mouth will roll open nicely.
Speed will have to be regulated around 850 and the cast alloy will need to be soft with some tin to make it malleable.
Figured you might like this one amigo
YES PLEASE! Been looking for such bullet for a while now! I am currently on GB for 158 but what I really want is THIS!!! You pretty much hit all the bullet points, gas check, crimp groove, hollow point. Maybe just a tad bit deeper HP or couple different pins one for less and one for more. Looks fantastic!
I’m in
Ill keep my guns money and freedom you keep the CHANGE!!!
I was thinking 4 HP pins deep, penta to mirror GD HP cavity, cup point, flat
Almost all of us have probably seen pictures of expanded Gold Dots showing
the small gold dot in the center of the recovered slug.
I never really understood the purpose of it, but now that I have cut one open
and thought about what happens when the hollow point expands, it makes sense.
If you look at the picture of the cross sectioned slug above in post 25,
you can see that sliced through dot is actually a good bit below the bottom of the open cavity.
That, I think, is effectively the true, real bottom of the HP cavity, there at the gold dot,
right at the top of the cannelure, because that is the point we have seen it will open up to.
It makes sense that when the petals open up they are thinner and easier to spread,
then as they thicken and there is more metal to move resistance increases and the expansion would slow....
but then the lead breaks away from the embedded dot, which acts as a stress relieving point.
The dot may be as important to full expansion as the serrations in the jacket.
I realized this by looking at the other side of the sectioned slug where a chunk of lead
broke away from the dot by itself. The petals would break away in the same fashion.
So perhaps there should be a long pin down to the crimp groove for use in 38 Special,
and a shorter pin for use in .357 Magum, so that each pin would create balanced
expansion and penetration depending on the speed of the cartridge they're loaded in.
I think this is what Low Budget Shooter was suggesting.
I don't even know if a deep penta pin is possible, just kicking around ideas.
The boolit drawing looks great and the right pins could make this a truly outstanding mold.
I will order a PB and a Gas Check version, for sure.
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I can draw it up with a pin for both ways no issue at all.
But what I will say on a lead hp bullet with that large of hollow point they are very hard to seat in the case without deforming the nose/hp and if not regulated to the proper velocity it will just blow the nose off.
You have no jacket to regulate it and slow it down.
So basically you end up with a wadcutter as the nose petals just strip away and break off.
An all lead bullet needs a balance between expansion and strength to support the mushroomed nose.
Not try to tell you guys we can make it that way just trying to explain what I have experienced with all my hp testing on all lead bullets.
I think a nice hp all the way to the crimp is a great idea for 38’s but we should narrow the opening just a little so it is able to be seated without just collapsing. The other option is you would have to make custom seating stems for your bullet seating die which I have done as well.
Only issue there is not everyone has a lathe to machine there own.
Just food for thought I will draft a deep and shallow and post them up for inspection and thoughts.
Wasalmonslayer.....I completely agree with you regarding a thin rim on a soft lead boolit.
I once had HP Mold Service HP a 410459 with a pin so large it was really difficult to seat the boolit into the case without deforming it,
the pin was too wide at the mouth and I ended up chucking it into a press and sanding it down a bit...
Lead soft enough that the nose wouldn't blow off was hard to seat without spreading.
Lead hard enough to seat easily would fragment on impact.
I am just wanting to offer information regarding the Gold Dot aspect of this project.
We won't have a true Gold Dot but I think we will be as close as we can get with cast lead, and everything looks great so far!
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If you guys are happy I think this will be a dang fine bullet made this way!
It's not a very big boolit, all things considered....
A deep penta would only be 1/3 of an inch long...
Same base as a short penta, just steeper sides, and should be doable....
Go for it !
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BP | Bronze Point | IMR | Improved Military Rifle | PTD | Pointed |
BR | Bench Rest | M | Magnum | RN | Round Nose |
BT | Boat Tail | PL | Power-Lokt | SP | Soft Point |
C | Compressed Charge | PR | Primer | SPCL | Soft Point "Core-Lokt" |
HP | Hollow Point | PSPCL | Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" | C.O.L. | Cartridge Overall Length |
PSP | Pointed Soft Point | Spz | Spitzer Point | SBT | Spitzer Boat Tail |
LRN | Lead Round Nose | LWC | Lead Wad Cutter | LSWC | Lead Semi Wad Cutter |
GC | Gas Check |